Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Spikethedee]

What about some kind of experiment? If, as seems likely, the 19/20 is called in the next few days, and we don't know how, when or if the 20/21 season will start, why not have a series of one day football festivals on streaming/pay-per-view?

 

Basic idea - four or five venues, with staggered kick-off times throughout a day or weekend. Local-ish teams, so you could have Dundee v Arbroath at 10am, Montrose v Brechin at 1pm, Dundee Utd v St Johnstone at 4pm, Brechin v Forfar at 7pm, all at the same stadium. One set of groundstaff/safety people etc so less risk of multiple people like that needed, teams staggered throughout the day to allow for cleaning of changing rooms etc. Revenue can be shared amongst all teams as a one-off trial to see if it would prove popular (obviously extra paid to the host club) and if doesn't get enough subscribers, then it can be seen as a notice that closed-door games aren't going to be a money spinner. Obviously you have teams clustered where possible to minimise travel as much as you can, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Edinburgh, Forth Valley, Fife etc, so you get some derby games and possibly a bit more interest. Obviously, there are things to work out, but it's a basic idea that doesn't need all 42 clubs to have players signed for a season until we know what's going to happen.

[parsforlife]

A lot of fans are, and have been generous to help their clubs out.  However it seems to have been forgotten by some that clubs are largely commercial operations and receive the bulk of their income from this and not generous fans.  Take Albion rovers pay what you want scheme, fans could have easily payed more than normal for their ticket, but the majority saw it as a chance to pay less and their income that year was well below normal. 

Any online stream will need priced as a commercial product and that is probably around about £5,  maybe pushed as high as £10 for a big game.  
It costs £15 to get b.t sport for a month showing a far higher standard of football with a much better production and professional commentary etc.  

We’d be doing very well to sell 1000 streams. £5000 every 2 weeks won’t even cover the few contracted players we have.  Anybody else would need to be amateur. And we’d still be in survival mode for fundraising. 

We’d have an utterly farcical situation of half a team of full timo pros and the other half amateurs.  We might just be able to run some way of looking after the pros with testing etc(itself a hard task) but how you look after the amateurs is beyond me.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by parsforlife

[johnnydun]

37 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

A lot of fans are, and have been generous to help their clubs out.  However it seems to have been forgotten by some that clubs are largely commercial operations and receive the bulk of their income from this and not generous fans.  Take Albion rovers pay what you want scheme, fans could have easily payed more than normal for their ticket, but the majority saw it as a chance to pay less and their income that year was well below normal. 

Any online stream will need priced as a commercial product and that is probably around about £5,  maybe pushed as high as £10 for a big game.  
It costs £15 to get b.t sport for a month showing a far higher standard of football with a much better production and professional commentary etc.  

We’d be doing very well to sell 1000 streams. £5000 every 2 weeks won’t even cover the few contracted players we have.  Anybody else would need to be amateur. And we’d still be in survival mode for fundraising. 

We’d have an utterly farcical situation of half a team of full timo pros and the other half amateurs.  We might just be able to run some way of looking after the pros with testing etc(itself a hard task) but how you look after the amateurs is beyond me.

 

 

Imo you charge just under a ticket price, so it comes a bit closer to real revenue.

I would happily pay £20 per week to watch Dundee on a live feed than £15 a month to watch some pish EPL game on BT sport.

[Sergeant Wilson]

46 minutes ago, Spikethedee said:

What about some kind of experiment? If, as seems likely, the 19/20 is called in the next few days, and we don't know how, when or if the 20/21 season will start, why not have a series of one day football festivals on streaming/pay-per-view?

 

Basic idea - four or five venues, with staggered kick-off times throughout a day or weekend. Local-ish teams, so you could have Dundee v Arbroath at 10am, Montrose v Brechin at 1pm, Dundee Utd v St Johnstone at 4pm, Brechin v Forfar at 7pm, all at the same stadium. One set of groundstaff/safety people etc so less risk of multiple people like that needed, teams staggered throughout the day to allow for cleaning of changing rooms etc. Revenue can be shared amongst all teams as a one-off trial to see if it would prove popular (obviously extra paid to the host club) and if doesn't get enough subscribers, then it can be seen as a notice that closed-door games aren't going to be a money spinner. Obviously you have teams clustered where possible to minimise travel as much as you can, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Edinburgh, Forth Valley, Fife etc, so you get some derby games and possibly a bit more interest. Obviously, there are things to work out, but it's a basic idea that doesn't need all 42 clubs to have players signed for a season until we know what's going to happen.

Friendlies in other words. Have you seen attendances at friendlies?

Who would watch them on the telly? I think we might need a one off competition with teams that can muster a squad.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Sergeant Wilson

[Spikethedee]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Friendlies in other words. Have you seen attendances at friendlies?

Who would watch them on the telly? I think we might need a one off competition with teams that can muster a squad.

I've seen the attendances at friendlies when the last season finished two months ago and the next one was starting in 2-5 weeks. Never seen the attendance at a friendly when there's been no live football at all for 3-6 months and the next season might be another 2-4 months away.

 

Was about to say I would even pay to stream a new game featuring the Kernaghan or McIntyre Dundee sides, but that's not really credible, but you get the idea...

[Sergeant Wilson]

5 minutes ago, Spikethedee said:

I've seen the attendances at friendlies when the last season finished two months ago and the next one was starting in 2-5 weeks. Never seen the attendance at a friendly when there's been no live football at all for 3-6 months and the next season might be another 2-4 months away.

 

Was about to say I would even pay to stream a new game featuring the Kernaghan or McIntyre Dundee sides, but that's not really credible, but you get the idea...

I don't think your typical though. The community on here tend to be more enthusiastic. Normal punters won't buy that.

[parsforlife]

8 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Imo you charge just under a ticket price, so it comes a bit closer to real revenue.

I would happily pay £20 per week to watch Dundee on a live feed than £15 a month to watch some pish EPL game on BT sport.

You might be. And many more in here might be but we aren’t typically the norm, clearly those spending time rambling on a forum have a greater interest/connection to Scottish football than your typical fan.

I have joined the centenary club which baring a small chance of a raffle prize is pretty much a monthly donation to the club, have payed into many fundraisers etc but there is absolutely no way I’d be paying £20 for our live streams that currently cost IIRC £7.50. 

As a student I would pay in at the far turnstyle of the main stand and walk along to the centre section to sit with my dad cos that would save me £2. I continued to pay as a student for years after at away grounds, I rarely buy food at the ground as it’s a rip off.  It’s quite clear that not everyone is willing to pay what they don’t have too.  Should live streams become the norm these will likely go onto streaming sites and fans will have the chance to not pay, many will take that option. Asking for £20 will drive many more to dodgy streams than £5.   Clubs being in difficultly or not people don’t like being ripped off and asking for anywhere near ticket price when the experience will be far inferior can’t be considered anything else. 

[vikingTON]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

If fans were asked to spend the same as they normally would in any season even if a ball isn’t kicked in order to save their club would that be so unreasonable?

 

A fans' organisation was set up at Morton last summer that secured a shares + debt write-off deal from the club in exchange for direct investment, initially for two years but with the idea of carrying it on going forward. It's raised about £200k total pledges for that time period so far and I've been happy to increase my monthly contribution to it since the crisis began. I'd be quite happy to keep that rolling forward so long as the club follows up on its end of the deal as well. Not everyone in the support is in a position to pick and choose between funds right now, but Morton are inadvertently in a better position than most for having this scheme already up and running.

On the other hand I wouldn't be keen on buying access to streamed matches next season as a means of supporting the club. I would rather the season be delayed and our staff kept on furlough until it is either possible for fans to return to the games and would like all other alternatives to be exhausted before that idea is carried out.

[Monkey Tennis]

4 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

If fans were asked to spend the same as they normally would in any season even if a ball isn’t kicked in order to save their club would that be so unreasonable?

 

Yes, because it would be utterly fanciful.

I wouldn't be terribly keen myself, and my income hasn't been negatively impacted by what's happened.

 

 

[vikingTON]

Incidentally, Morton's chief executive Dave McKinnon set out the current line of thinking about a restart in the local newspaper yesterday. It could just be his version of events but he has tacked fairly close to the most common stance of other SPFL clubs since the crisis began:

Quote

 

'I reckon we've got 10 weeks to get this sorted and know where we're going.

There are huge challenges for us. We're looking initially at games behind closed doors that would be streamed live, and introducing season ticket holders only, and then gradually bringing the public back in to watch the games.'

 

I'm not keen at all on the first phase of the restart as suggested above and also wonder if it makes sense to have games played in front of ST holders as well. For some clubs in the division that will be a significant amount but Morton themselves have never had a high season ticket uptake. If access is based on this current season's tickets (which had particularly piss-poor sales for a laundry list of reasons) then we would get very little return from it; if it is based on sales made later this year then what is there to stop any semi-casual fan getting a ticket and so negating the point of a limited crowd from a shan social distancing aim in the first place?

Edited May 15, 2020 by vikingTON

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

If access is based on last season's Season tickets (which had piss-poor sales for a laundry list of reasons) then we would get very little return from it; if it is based on sales made later this year then what is there to stop any semi-casual fan getting a ticket and so negating the point of a limited crowd from a shan social distancing aim in the first place?

Cappielow, allegedly, holds over 12,000. We could easily fit our average attendance in the ground with us all staying 2 metres apart. Limiting it to season ticket holders seems absolutely pointless.

[Granny Danger]

7 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, because it would be utterly fanciful.

I wouldn't be terribly keen myself, and my income hasn't been negatively impacted by what's happened.

 

 

It would obviously be a matter of personal choice.  I’d happily do it if I thought the alternative was the club going bust, and make no mistake that will be a real alternative for many clubs.

 

[parsforlife]

4 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

It would obviously be a matter of personal choice.  I’d happily do it if I thought the alternative was the club going bust, and make no mistake that will be a real alternative for many clubs.

 

Fan donations are obviously going to be a big part of this. But donation is the key bit. It’s not reliable income and will never replace what clubs take in commercially.  Are there many clubs without schemes going? We’ve suspended our active fundraising scheme right now after £50k was reached but this might change once furlough comes to a close/government contributions reduce.

[DA Baracus]

20 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:

Cappielow, allegedly, holds over 12,000. We could easily fit our average attendance in the ground with us all staying 2 metres apart. Limiting it to season ticket holders seems absolutely pointless.

No you couldn't.

[AsimButtHitsASix]

2 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

No you couldn't.

We absolutely could. The far ends of both sides of the Cow Shed aren't busy. Sinclair Street end is, at best, a quarter full most days and the Wee Dublin End sits empty. When ICT or Alloa come through the small number of fans they bring practically social distance anyway.

Whether we would, or should, are different questions but we clearly could.

[Skyline Drifter]

20 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Fan donations are obviously going to be a big part of this. But donation is the key bit. It’s not reliable income and will never replace what clubs take in commercially.  Are there many clubs without schemes going? We’ve suspended our active fundraising scheme right now after £50k was reached but this might change once furlough comes to a close/government contributions reduce.

We dont have any special scheme going. Fans can make a donation through the online club shop if they want, and a few have, but we havent promoted it specifically for covid. The SLO's and another couple of prominent local fans have run fundraisers off their own back to raise a few thousand which is much appreciated but at no point have we asked for specific Covid donations. The club is in lockdown, the place is padlocked and all staff are furloughed. We are parked for now. Whether we do something more active as furlough ceases remains to be seen but by then we will have virtually no players.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, SpoonTon said:

 

I don't think people are thinking through the considerable damage trying to hibernate for a year would do to football at our level. 

I'm trying to think it through, and I'm not seeing huge problems, beyond what it costs us emotionally as fans.  

I think there's a theme here of people not appreciating quite how niche our interest is.  Football in itself is obviously not a niche interest, but local, mediocre football in Scotland bloody well is.

If we hibernate, the likes of us will all be back with renewed vigour when it ends.  They'll not lose us, and they'll pick up some of the wishy washy fans whose hearts have grown fonder.

Hibernation is the way to go, if it can be made to be as cheap as possible, and so long as it one day ends.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Monkey Tennis

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, Spikethedee said:

What about some kind of experiment? If, as seems likely, the 19/20 is called in the next few days, and we don't know how, when or if the 20/21 season will start, why not have a series of one day football festivals on streaming/pay-per-view?

 

Basic idea - four or five venues, with staggered kick-off times throughout a day or weekend. Local-ish teams, so you could have Dundee v Arbroath at 10am, Montrose v Brechin at 1pm, Dundee Utd v St Johnstone at 4pm, Brechin v Forfar at 7pm, all at the same stadium. One set of groundstaff/safety people etc so less risk of multiple people like that needed, teams staggered throughout the day to allow for cleaning of changing rooms etc. Revenue can be shared amongst all teams as a one-off trial to see if it would prove popular (obviously extra paid to the host club) and if doesn't get enough subscribers, then it can be seen as a notice that closed-door games aren't going to be a money spinner. Obviously you have teams clustered where possible to minimise travel as much as you can, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Edinburgh, Forth Valley, Fife etc, so you get some derby games and possibly a bit more interest. Obviously, there are things to work out, but it's a basic idea that doesn't need all 42 clubs to have players signed for a season until we know what's going to happen.

This is the worst idea since Kennedy said "It's a lovely day - let's have the roof down."

[vikingTON]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This is the worst idea since Kennedy said "It's a lovely day - let's have the roof down."

Why? Other than the final assertion that the clubs wouldn't need to sign players for a season (which is nonsensical), the rest isn't a million miles away at all from what the authorities are considering with hub grounds and streaming of matches.

[Morton Supporter]

Can anyone here tell me what the benefit is to getting back to playing football any time soon?

Even if you’re comfortable with the ethics of taking up testing capacity and health care resources, as well as asking people to pay on the back of swathes of unemployment and wage reductions - be that through gate receipts or streaming subscriptions - clubs will tie themselves into contracts and costs that they can otherwise avoid with the very real risk that restrictions return in their current which makes any football impossible.

So why bother? What is the benefit here, other than a bit of entertainment for one section of society?

For most clubs, it will be much safer for them to suspend their operations indefinitely. That of course won’t suit all clubs - particularly those committed to long-term contracts, ground leases or which have debts to service - but there isn’t a solution that suits all.

I appreciate, and sympathise, that this would effectively mean unemployment for a swathe of full-time players (and a significant reduction in income for part-time players) as well as club employees - but they could be looking at redundancies anyway if the game tries to restart in such uncertain circumstances.