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Granny Danger

Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

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5 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

As for the spfl time line, I dont doubt its veracity but for me there are two o/s questions (desoite being pleased the vote passed). 

1 - given it is now acknowledged the vote did reach the spfl as it was their server that held it, should it not count? 

2 - is it allowed for Dundee to rescind a vote they dont deny casting because circumstances changed after they cast it? Maybe if a different vote is cast before the first arrives but the first then DID arrive befire they voted again.

Perfectly legal to rescind a 'no' vote within the 28 days.

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9 minutes ago, The DA said:

Perfectly legal to rescind a 'no' vote within the 28 days.

Mmm, I would query your use of "perfectly". Not being legally forbidden isnt quite the same thing. But yes, I accept they could just have remade the same proposal I guess and got it through if nobody else changed. 

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As for the spfl time line, I dont doubt its veracity but for me there are two o/s questions (desoite being pleased the vote passed).  1 - given it is now acknowledged the vote did reach the spfl as it was their server that held it, should it not count?  2 - is it allowed for Dundee to rescind a vote they dont deny casting because circumstances changed after they cast it? Maybe if a different vote is cast before the first arrives but the first then DID arrive befire they voted again. 

 

 

As has been said many times regards point 2 - on a resolution a No vote (or an abstention) can be changed but not a Yes vote.  

 

As the deadline had not actually passed then those who has not voted in favour could still have done so until that deadline - not just Dundee but Rangers or any of the others who did not agree the proposal.

 

 

Dundee's vote arriving late or otherwise is irrelevant as they had not cast a Yes vote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

As has been said many times regards point 2 - on a resolution a No vote (or an abstention) can be changed but not a Yes vote.  

As the deadline had not actually passed then those who has not voted in favour could still have done so until that deadline - not just Dundee but Rangers or any of the others who did not agree the proposal.

Dundee's vote arriving late or otherwise is irrelevant as they had not cast a Yes vote.

This isn’t actually clear.

The implication of the Thistle QC’s argument was that if there were three simultaneous Championship ballots formally rejecting the proposal *at any time* the resolution is deemed to have fallen. You cannot then change your vote on a negatived resolution, but you can vote afresh on another proposed resolution that is the same in substance.

Edited by Ad Lib

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1 hour ago, The DA said:

Perfectly legal to rescind a 'no' vote within the 28 days.

Assuming that the proposed resolution was not formally rejected as soon as three Championship clubs had lodged “No” votes.

Which isn’t clear.

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22 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Assuming that the proposed resolution was not formally rejected as soon as three Championship clubs had lodged “No” votes.

Which isn’t clear.

If it was rejected, how hard would it have been for the SPFL to draw up the same vote a few hours later and repeat?

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1 minute ago, harry94 said:

If it was rejected, how hard would it have been for the SPFL to draw up the same vote a few hours later and repeat?

It wouldn't have been remotely hard but it would then give all the Yes votes also the opportunity to change their minds.

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Just now, harry94 said:

If it was rejected, how hard would it have been for the SPFL to draw up the same vote a few hours later and repeat?

Probably not very difficult.  But it would have been clearer. 

had the resolution been accepted as failed on Friday night(even if the same ‘what email’ shit went on) Proper procedure would have been the spfl to state the vote had failed narrowly but they had since been contacted by a club who have indicated they are now willing to support the resolution. Therefore a further vote will be had with clubs asked to submit votes by 5pm Monday.  We’d have got to the same place but it would have been far better handled.

 

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39 minutes ago, harry94 said:

If it was rejected, how hard would it have been for the SPFL to draw up the same vote a few hours later and repeat?

Possibly very easily. But it would then be subject to a fresh 28 day deadline and those who had previously voted Yes would have been free not to vote for it second time round.

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35 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Probably not very difficult.  But it would have been clearer. 

had the resolution been accepted as failed on Friday night(even if the same ‘what email’ shit went on) Proper procedure would have been the spfl to state the vote had failed narrowly but they had since been contacted by a club who have indicated they are now willing to support the resolution. Therefore a further vote will be had with clubs asked to submit votes by 5pm Monday.  We’d have got to the same place but it would have been far better handled.

 

That's possible but by no means certain.  Listening to Sportsound it seems clear that some clubs are angry they they were told that the proposal was the only means to distribute money to clubs when the SPFL knew that there were other mechanisms (loans or a vote to distribute prize money without settling promotion and relegation issues).  There could have been pressure for a different proposal.  A bit academic now though.

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This season is over now clubs will need to start preparing their squads for next season. With the uncertainty of when it will all start again I wonder when clubs will start talking to players ou of contract regarding next season. With most clubs players & managers furloughed will this prevent talks taking place on the near future? Hundreds of Players will be out of contract come end of May, a very difficult time for all.... 

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There wont be any football until next year imo. Its impossible at this level.

Closed door top league in England at best

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8 minutes ago, SUPERSOUTH said:

This season is over now clubs will need to start preparing their squads for next season. With the uncertainty of when it will all start again I wonder when clubs will start talking to players ou of contract regarding next season. With most clubs players & managers furloughed will this prevent talks taking place on the near future? Hundreds of Players will be out of contract come end of May, a very difficult time for all.... 

Preparing for next season is currently improssible. We have no idea when it will start. Closed doors can’t happen, it’s a logistical nightmare and financial suicide.   


The first thing that needs to happen is the spfl to clean up the rules to allow short term deals to be offered, this would make it possible for clubs to keep everyone under furlough and sort squads out once we get clarity otherwise it’s going to end up with hundreds of players without clubs/income.

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3 hours ago, parsforlife said:

Preparing for next season is currently improssible. We have no idea when it will start. Closed doors can’t happen, it’s a logistical nightmare and financial suicide.   


The first thing that needs to happen is the spfl to clean up the rules to allow short term deals to be offered, this would make it possible for clubs to keep everyone under furlough and sort squads out once we get clarity otherwise it’s going to end up with hundreds of players without clubs/income.

Could a club not keep the player employed at the club so they receive furlough pay, even if they aren't registered as a player?  Or is there some rule about contracts as opposed to registrations?  I thought your employer could re-hire you for the purpose of furloughing throughout this period.

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23 minutes ago, super_carson said:

Could a club not keep the player employed at the club so they receive furlough pay, even if they aren't registered as a player?  Or is there some rule about contracts as opposed to registrations?  I thought your employer could re-hire you for the purpose of furloughing throughout this period.

A lot of that will depend on how long the government will continue with the furlough scheme. Can't see it lasting beyond July, or August at the latest.

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26 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

A lot of that will depend on how long the government will continue with the furlough scheme. Can't see it lasting beyond July, or August at the latest.

Might find that players get offered short term contracts for the duration of the scheme for the sole purpose of being on it.  Before any new deals get offered it will depend entirely on whether or not the season starts on time/close to normal.

I saw that the Irish government have banned 5000+ events until September, and we are in a similar position with regards to number of deaths and infection, I wonder if we might see something like that here?  Means the Premiership will probably be behind closed doors, but lower league games would be largely unaffected in terms of crowds.  Of course, lots of potential problems and the like to be worked out with that and depends on the situation but I would expect there needs to be some sort of decision in the next month or so in order to allow clubs to prepare accordingly.  

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2 minutes ago, super_carson said:

Might find that players get offered short term contracts for the duration of the scheme for the sole purpose of being on it.  Before any new deals get offered it will depend entirely on whether or not the season starts on time/close to normal.

I saw that the Irish government have banned 5000+ events until September, and we are in a similar position with regards to number of deaths and infection, I wonder if we might see something like that here?  Means the Premiership will probably be behind closed doors, but lower league games would be largely unaffected in terms of crowds.  Of course, lots of potential problems and the like to be worked out with that and depends on the situation but I would expect there needs to be some sort of decision in the next month or so in order to allow clubs to prepare accordingly.  

Empty stadium games are not sustainable for the vast majority of Scottish football. 

Can't see crowds of up to 5000 being allowed either.

But we shall see.

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1 hour ago, super_carson said:

Could a club not keep the player employed at the club so they receive furlough pay, even if they aren't registered as a player?  Or is there some rule about contracts as opposed to registrations?  I thought your employer could re-hire you for the purpose of furloughing throughout this period.

I wondered about this, sort of. I was wondering if you could effectively re-contract all the players to an "admin role" and continue to pay them on furlough. I presume that wouldn't be allowed as it's a change of role, and not a genuine one, but I don't know for sure. 

Effectively what you are suggesting is a cleverer version by re-contracting the players to playing contracts BUT NOT REGISTERING THEM. I suppose that's conceivably possible although possibly also a breach of the scheme in that in reality they can't BE players if they aren't registered as such. Also not sure where you'd stand if you then ended these "unregistered contracts" early because restrictions were lifted. You'd need some legal advice. The player's union should be looking into stuff like this. An awful lot of their members have this situation coming up in the next 4 or 5 weeks. I imagine a lot of League One and League Two players may be out of contract in mid-May.

48 minutes ago, super_carson said:

Might find that players get offered short term contracts for the duration of the scheme for the sole purpose of being on it.  Before any new deals get offered it will depend entirely on whether or not the season starts on time/close to normal.

As I've posted before, the minimum length of a registered playing contract is to the first day of the next window. So you can renew a playing contract due to run out shortly ONCE on a short term basis. As long as they sign it before 9th June and before their present one runs out then it can run to any day you like after 9th June. But the first time they need recontracted after 9th June it has to run to 1st January.

So you could give players an extra month to say the end of June which is when furlough runs to right now but if furlough is extended (and lets face it we're not going to be back in action for 1st July) then the player at that point either goes unemployed or you have to sign him through to January.

Of course you could give him a contract through to say mid August now but then we end up getting back earlier than anticipated, furlough is dropped at the end of June and you are left paying in full a player you maybe don't intend to retain for an extra two months. Or we don't get back but the furlough scheme is discontinued and you have to pay him to sit still. I doubt many clubs will take those risks.

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