Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[Ray Patterson]

1 minute ago, Speroni*1 said:

Just to give you an insight into the working mind of Lachlan Cameron - He believes that Trump is doing a good job and that the corona virus is a Chinese flu - well, based on his Twitter feed anyway.

Decide for yourself.

So he's a reasonable individual then  

[oneteaminglasgow]

Why are Ayr so against a 14 team Premiership, it gives them a massive chance of promotion to the big time. Or is Lachlan Cameron just a walloper?

He wants 18 or 20 teams as it’ll be even easier for Ayr to get to the top flight. It’s self interest in entirely the same way that Thistle/Hearts wanting 14 from next season is.

[Ludo*1]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirepud said:

24 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's a lot of pish. 
What benefit is there for young players to play in dead rubber games at the end of every season?
St Johnstone were involved in a relegation battle for the first half of this season. The two best players we've had this season, in terms of progression, are the youngest two players in Ali McCann and Callum Hendry. 
High pressure competitive games are better for young players than dead ones. Clubs will use young players if they're good enough.

 We need to get rid of this mentality that every game needs to be important. 

This is utter shite. Every game is of absolute importance when your fans are paying £20 and above to get in and so it should be. 

I have no problem paying the over expensive season ticket cost, but many people do. Many more would too if they thought there would be a large batch of games that were of no importance.

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, yorkshirepud said:

Few years ago, Ayr had a promising full back who made a daft challenge in a play off game and was rightly sent off. Ayr lost the play off and the full back's confidence disappeared off a cliff as he realised what he had cost the club. Had it happened in a dead rubber then nobody would have cared, he would have learned a lesson and wouldn't have left the club within a year, under a cloud. Get them used to playing at that level in meaningless games first and gradually build them up to the higher intensity games. It will be interesting to see where those 2 St Johnstone youngsters are in 5 years time. Scottish football is littered with stories of promising youngsters who have disappeared due to the demands of the safety-first approach. We need to get rid of this mentality that every game needs to be important. Some of us might enjoy a season or two of mid-table mediocrity if we could see a promising team being built and some good younger players coming through that we know could be sold for a few bob and a chunky sell-on clause.

Yes, sometimes players wilt. Sometimes players thrive.

We had promising youngsters who were only given game time at the end of seasons, in dead rubber games, and when they eventually stepped into the first team at 20/21, they couldnt deal with the competitive nature of it and just crumbled.

Did Andy Robertson progress because he played in dead rubber games for United? Or because they pushed him straight into high profile games?

Did John McGinn and Kenny McLean progress at St Mirren because they gave them time at the end of season nothing games? Or because they were shoved straight into promotion/relegation fights?

If young players are good enough, top flight clubs will play them. If they're good enough, theyll progress. Absolutely killing competitive games in the top flight so you can chuck 22 young laddies on the pitch and convince yourself theyll all make it because they're playing first team football is just weird.

[Ray Patterson]

1 minute ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

 

He wants 18 or 20 teams as it’ll be even easier for Ayr to get to the top flight. It’s self interest in entirely the same way that Thistle/Hearts wanting 14 from next season is.

 

A 20 Team Premiership is genuinely the dumbest suggestion I've heard so far.

Rangers and Celtic winning 10-0 every week, aye Sky'll be salivating at that.

[Derry Alli]

5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

If it was anyone other than Hearts in bottom spot there’s no way Budge would support this.

She has been an advocate for it for a few years. 

[SandyCromarty]

As I mentioned earlier I'm sure that if reconstruction goes ahead then the PL will be no more than 14 teams at the very most, don't forget that the Old Firm are the money and they dictate what happens like it or not so they won't be in favour of over 14 to keep the TV money evenly distributed with less than 16 teams, and with Ann Budge chairing the reconstruction talks it's likely Hearts will stay up with DU being promoted and Caley rounding off the 14.

[Ray Patterson]

1 minute ago, SandyCromarty said:

As I mentioned earlier I'm sure that if reconstruction goes ahead then the PL will be no more than 14 teams at the very most, don't forget that the Old Firm are the money and they dictate what happens like it or not so they won't be in favour of over 14 to keep the TV money evenly distributed with less than 16 teams, and with Ann Budge chairing the reconstruction talks it's likely Hearts will stay up with DU being promoted and Caley rounding off the 14.

This.

[RedEd]

34 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I've read what he says about Donald Trump and his associates on Twitter, and that alone is enough for me to establish that Lachlan KKKameron is a walloper.

Entirely different matter.  Stick to the subject in question. 

[TheScarf]

The overarching conclusion is that the Ayr chairman is a walloper who's daft quotes should be roundly ridiculed. 

[HMIP]

26 minutes ago, yorkshirepud said:

47 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's a lot of pish. 
What benefit is there for young players to play in dead rubber games at the end of every season?
St Johnstone were involved in a relegation battle for the first half of this season. The two best players we've had this season, in terms of progression, are the youngest two players in Ali McCann and Callum Hendry. 
High pressure competitive games are better for young players than dead ones. Clubs will use young players if they're good enough.

Few years ago, Ayr had a promising full back who made a daft challenge in a play off game and was rightly sent off. Ayr lost the play off and the full back's confidence disappeared off a cliff as he realised what he had cost the club. Had it happened in a dead rubber then nobody would have cared, he would have learned a lesson and wouldn't have left the club within a year, under a cloud. Get them used to playing at that level in meaningless games first and gradually build them up to the higher intensity games. It will be interesting to see where those 2 St Johnstone youngsters are in 5 years time. Scottish football is littered with stories of promising youngsters who have disappeared due to the demands of the safety-first approach. We need to get rid of this mentality that every game needs to be important. Some of us might enjoy a season or two of mid-table mediocrity if we could see a promising team being built and some good younger players coming through that we know could be sold for a few bob and a chunky sell-on clause.

The situation with a Jackson Longridge was entirely down to Mark Roberts freezing him out.  Petty and self defeating.  

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Robbo63 said:

If you read his statement, he is sensible and saying a 14 team league does not work

on looking at it he is right

1. if you play each team home and away twice =52 games ( no team would agree to that )

2. 1 home 1 away =26 games ( not enough games ) 

3. only works with playing each team 3 times , then you get the debate who gets the 2 home games 

Not sure what age you are but we had 14 team leagues on the basis of your option 3 for more than a decade and it worked ok. Not ideal but there wasnt a massive groundswell against them either. Of course they werent in the top division.

Personally I dont want a 14 team league back either but the notion that they 'dont work' isnt really true.

1 hour ago, Speroni*1 said:

Based on Ann Budge's latest statement, it looks like she will propose a singular season of a 14 team top flight as she addresses it as a 'temporary restructure'.

That's probably the most likely way it'll get through but I'd be pissed off if we were doing it as just one and done and I can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'd lean more onto Cameron's side who states that it shouldn't just be done to save clubs. League reconstruction should be saving clubs - but it should be done to enhance the game going forward as well.

You didnt seriously expect any reconstruction to be permanent did you? That wont happen for all the reasons already given. The top sides dont want it and there wasnt any particular groundswell for reconstruction before this. I always assumed we would be looking at a temporary dolution to placate the relegated sides with it going back to the existing structure asap.

54 minutes ago, Speroni*1 said:

Can't disagree with that. I'll wait for her proposal in full but her statement this morning has fair burst my bubble somewhat.

I, evidently naively, thought she'd fight for a 14 team league in order to save Hearts. I never for one second thought she'd have the gall to introduce it purely as a one season temporary measure to protect Hearts. 

That is naive to be honest. The only reason restructure is on the table is because it was accepted that it wasnt entirely fair to relegate the bottom sides without completing the fixtures. There wasnt any great campaign for it before. Indeed Scottish football seemed relatively comfortable sith the setup. I doubt there would be any significant support at the top level for permanent change.

Personally I dont particularly want a bigger top division unless iit went to two divisions of 20/22 but I dont see that happening and the televised OF games are worth too much to drop two of them.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Brazilianlex said:

Ann is in a difficult position having got pelters a couple of years back for saying there are too many senior teams in Scotland, a statement that led to her leaving the spfl Board.

if she does a U turn now and advocates adding two more teams to the spfl, she has to explain how that isn’t just about saving Hearts, which we all know it is but a temporary 3 x 14s let’s her and Hearts off the hook.

A temporary measure however, is even more brazenly simply about saving Hearts.

  Even the pretence that this is about reconstruction in pursuit of some greater good, would have to be dropped.

[Ludo*1]

1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Not sure what age you are but we had 14 team leagues on the basis of your option 3 for more than a decade and it worked ok. Not ideal but there wasnt a massive groundswell against them either. Of course they werent in the top division.

Personally I dont want a 14 team league back either but the notion that they 'dont work' isnt really true.

You didnt seriously expect any reconstruction to be permanent did you? That wont happen for all the reasons already given. The top sides dont want it and there wasnt any particular groundswell for reconstruction before this. I always assumed we would be looking at a temporary dolution to placate the relegated sides with it going back to the existing structure asap.

That is naive to be honest. The only reason restructure is on the table is because it was accepted that it wasnt entirely fair to relegate the bottom sides without completing the fixtures. There wasnt any great campaign for it before. Indeed Scottish football seemed relatively comfortable sith the setup. I doubt there would be any significant support at the top level for permanent change.

Personally I dont particularly want a bigger top division unless iit went to two divisions of 20/22 but I dont see that happening and the televised OF games are worth too much to drop two of them.

What's your reasoning for a 20/22 set up? Honestly couldn't think of anything worse. I'm not posing that as a loaded question either - genuinely want to know what the argument for it is as it sounds like it'd make the league season dull as hell to me. 

[tintax]

Temporary reconstruction? What a load of nonsense. Either go the whole way in trying to reorganise the leagues permanently or dont bother. 

[RiG]

Anyone who thinks that whatever reconstruction plan comes forward will be long term is deluding themselves. The top flight clubs have no interesting in (permanently) expanding the league. we will be back to the current setup within a couple of years if not sooner. 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, yorkshirepud said:

 It is no coincidence Scottish football produced some terrific players in the 60's and 70's when we had larger leagues but this dried up when we moved to a 10 team top division as the fear factor stifled creativity and brought about a safety-first culture.

Scottish football thrived in the decade after a 10 team top flight was introduced.

Titles were shared round, there was European club success and we didn't miss a World Cup.  Your timeline is faulty.

[Sergeant Wilson]

 

9 hours ago, Dee Man said:

I'd never heard of the c**t until about 2 days ago. 

Think Trump but not as clever, good looking or successful

1 hour ago, Speroni*1 said:

An 18 or 20 team top flight in Scotland would be utterly horrendous and leave a huge middle portion of the league with a vast amount of meaningless games every season. That's a horrendous shout.

I used to be an advocate for the 16 team top flight but even that's open to a large amount of boring, non events. Easily swayed on that one, but I think the 14 team league is just right.

What is Cameron's argument for an 18 or 20 team top flight?

it also leaves the division below an absolute  diddy wasteland, not a good look for your 2nd national division.

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm not sure what else you expected when Budge got involved, tbh.

She doesnt give a single f**k about "the good of Scottish football", it's all about what's best for her. Only issue is Dundee have let her be in charge, so expect her to somehow find a way to shaft lower league sides long term.

She'll be away like a two bob rocket after this. 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Robbo63 said:

If you read his statement, he is sensible and saying a 14 team league does not work

on looking at it he is right

1. if you play each team home and away twice =52 games ( no team would agree to that )

2. 1 home 1 away =26 games ( not enough games ) 

3. only works with playing each team 3 times , then you get the debate who gets the 2 home games 

 

A wacky idea I know, but bear with me.

What about some sort of split?  Obviously, such a move would be entirely unprecedented, but it might be worth looking at.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, jamamafegan said:

A 14 team league would be a superb result and a step in the right direction. 

Why's that then?