diegomarahenry Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, virginton said: I think you'll find that Partick aren't even impacted by promotion being scrapped across the board any more, as they sit 5th (FIFTH) in their respective seaside league division beneath such big-hitters like Montrose and Cove Rangers. We'd be as well consulting Berwick Rangers for their impact assessment while we're at it down there. I see your point 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of B A R P Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: Why would the two well-run and solvent part-time teams be any more likely to vote to stop playing than the full time teams that appear to run at a loss? You’re currently bottom; Alloa are ninth... why piss about waiting for L1 & L2 to get stopped if you can guarantee a clean slate from 21/22? 34 minutes ago, virginton said: Why would a £500k grant to cover Covid costs need to be 'handed back' if Covid leads to the campaign being binned? Are pubs being forced to hand back government relief now that they're shut again as well? The Scottish Government is not actually using taxpayer's money to get your team's stream online at 3pm every week. They're doing it to keep the actual businesses in existence. There is absolutely no requirement for clubs to burn that money on testing and continuing a ridiculous 27 game season entirely BCD. That is the definition of the sunk-cost fallacy right there. I don’t know the mechanism for the grants, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go pro rata; if it stops and clubs can cover their most significant cost through the furlough scheme, I’ll be astonished if we get to keep 500k on top... The only justification for the money at this point is to offset loss of earnings *to allow clubs to continue*; otherwise, it makes no sense. If they’d wanted to compensate clubs for *not* playing, that should have been done before the season started. There is no credible public health rationale for stopping the Championship (it’s only balloons like Robertson or Steve fuckin Bruce who’re rattling on about some kind of ‘moral’ issue). The only possible ‘justification’ for stopping, as has been said, is that the resultant chaos and in-fighting would be absolutely hilarious... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said: I don’t know the mechanism for the grants The pertinent point 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Why did Inverness ask for this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, itzdrk said: Why did Inverness ask for this? Losing money hand over fist, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzdrk Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, Mr. Alli said: Losing money hand over fist, IMO. No RIP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mr. Alli said: Losing money hand over fist, IMO. Aye, for about 20 years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said: You’re currently bottom; Alloa are ninth... why piss about waiting for L1 & L2 to get stopped if you can guarantee a clean slate from 21/22? I don’t know the mechanism for the grants, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they go pro rata; if it stops and clubs can cover their most significant cost through the furlough scheme, I’ll be astonished if we get to keep 500k on top... The only justification for the money at this point is to offset loss of earnings *to allow clubs to continue*; otherwise, it makes no sense. If they’d wanted to compensate clubs for *not* playing, that should have been done before the season started. There is no credible public health rationale for stopping the Championship (it’s only balloons like Robertson or Steve fuckin Bruce who’re rattling on about some kind of ‘moral’ issue). The only possible ‘justification’ for stopping, as has been said, is that the resultant chaos and in-fighting would be absolutely hilarious... The clubs have and will continue to lose earnings regardless of whether they play or not. That is what the SG is eventually - but generously - covering. It is not contingent on continuing to trade when there are no commercial grounds to do so. It's not as if the government are trying to open up the economy either, so this is a nonsense claim. The £500k is staying put. It's a choice of either playing out a tinpot 27 game season BCD or punting the staff on furlough and going again next season in a more secure financial position. The only relevant question is this: would your football club have signed up for 27/27 games behind closed doors last summer? If not, then the argument for chucking this campaign is straightforward. Forget about games played and other costs sunk - if a full season streamed virtually is unsustainable then it should be wrapped now and clubs make use of the furlough scheme instead. It's also remarkable to see the no health grounds to cancel argument circulating, given that all of Scottish football was indefinitely suspended after the Arsenal manager got the virus last March. There have been two confirmed outbreaks at Championship clubs in recent weeks, which in Morton's case involved backroom staff as well. I obviously don't wish this to happen, but all it would take is *one* fatality of a club employee or similar to render these arguments utterly ludicrous in retrospect. Edited January 15, 2021 by vikingTON -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, itzdrk said: No RIP Their stream is a RIP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said: You’re currently bottom; Alloa are ninth... why piss about waiting for L1 & L2 to get stopped if you can guarantee a clean slate from 21/22? Call me naive, but I would prefer to think that both Alloa and ourselves would prefer to try to play ourselves out of trouble rather than rely on the season being called null and void. However, the argument you now appear to be advancing appears to be based upon current league position, rather than part-time status. That effectively negates your original point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CALDERON Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 I really want the football to continue as its been a real boost having something vaguely normal. I was fucking raging after our defeat to Queens, which finally felt like the Rovers were back. That said, it would be absolutely fucking hilarious to null and void. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of B A R P Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, virginton said: The clubs have and will continue to lose earnings regardless of whether they play or not. That is what the SG is eventually - but generously - covering. It is not contingent on continuing to trade when there is no commercial grounds to do so. It's not as if the government are trying to open up the economy either, so this is a nonsense claim. The £500k is staying put. It's a choice of either playing out a tinpot 27 game season BCD or punting the staff on furlough and going again next season in a more secure financial position. The only relevant question is this: would your football club have signed up for 27/27 games behind closed doors last summer? If not, then the argument for chucking this campaign is straightforward. Forget about games played and other costs sunk - if a full season streamed virtually is unsustainable then it should be wrapped and clubs make use of the furlough scheme instead. It's also remarkable to see the no health grounds to cancel argument circulating, given that all of Scottish football was indefinitely suspended after the Arsenal manager got the virus last March. There have been two confirmed outbreaks at Championship clubs in recent weeks, which in Morton's case involved backroom staff as well. I obviously don't wish this to happen, but all it would take is *one* fatality of a club employee or similar to render these arguments utterly ludicrous in retrospect. You lost me at ‘would’... retrospective magical thinking is not the point: it’s about what makes most sense from where we are. Furlough money changes the equation, whether you like it or not; the grants will almost certainly not have been paid in a single installment and must be up for reconsideration if the league stops. On the public health issue, I should have been clearer: the Championship happening without fans in attendance is having close to zero impact on transmission. There is no causal link between people dying and losing their jobs and Morton playing Arbroath. If people really cared about the moral issues, they’d have overthrown the government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 24 minutes ago, Flash said: If they play on, they get the £500k anyway. All costs to date are also the same. So, ignoring the relegation point, which I appreciate is significant, provided the prize money (plus remaining streaming income) is higher than 3.5 months wages plus testing and other costs, clubs would be better to carry on? Yes, that's true. I wasn't trying to suggest there was no "cost" to null and voiding it, just that they already got more money than they would have made from those things in a normal season anyway. But yes you're right, there's no financial argument to shut it down. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Play Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 40 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: If you could make your mind up that would be stellar. I just hope our chairman Nelms does the same if there is another vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost of B A R P Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said: Call me naive, but I would prefer to think that both Alloa and ourselves would prefer to try to play ourselves out of trouble rather than rely on the season being called null and void. However, the argument you now appear to be advancing appears to be based upon current league position, rather than part-time status. That effectively negates your original point. ‘Part-time clubs’ was merely a collective description. I should have just said ‘Alloa and Arbroath’; or ‘the clubs at the bottom’. The point remains. Genuinely glad to hear you’d rather continue; hope the Arbroath chairman, for example, shares your view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said: Good. Dundee will change their mind @opengoalsport @ladbible 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said: You lost me at ‘would’... retrospective magical thinking is not the point: it’s about what makes most sense from where we are. Furlough money changes the equation, whether you like it or not; the grants will almost certainly not have been paid in a single installment and must be up for reconsideration if the league stops. On the public health issue, I should have been clearer: the Championship happening without fans in attendance is having close to zero impact on transmission. There is no causal link between people dying and losing their jobs and Morton playing Arbroath. If people really cared about the moral issues, they’d have overthrown the government. No it mustn't be 'up for reconsideration': there is no evidence to support that claim. The SG is not losing sleep at night over Championship football fans not getting a stream next weekend: so long as the institutions survive the pandemic, that's their job done when it comes to government intervention before May's election. Nobody at government level is forcing the SPFL to continue playing. Once you remove this claim that money would be recouped/withheld from the grant then the equation is the same as last summer, only with near 100% certainty that there'll be no fans inside the ground. Furlough support is another key argument in favour of binning the campaign. It makes no sense for GMFC or any similar club to take grant money that is needed to keep the lights on and spend it on testing and player wages, in exchange for what? The £14 a pop streams aren't delivering break-even now per match and certainly won't do so when it gets to dead rubber time in April. Edited January 15, 2021 by vikingTON -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers_Lad Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said: You lost me at ‘would’... retrospective magical thinking is not the point: it’s about what makes most sense from where we are. Furlough money changes the equation, whether you like it or not; the grants will almost certainly not have been paid in a single installment and must be up for reconsideration if the league stops. On the public health issue, I should have been clearer: the Championship happening without fans in attendance is having close to zero impact on transmission. There is no causal link between people dying and losing their jobs and Morton playing Arbroath. If people really cared about the moral issues, they’d have overthrown the government. Going for a chippie has limited impact on transmission but we cant do that now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Dundee will change their mind @opengoalsport @ladbible Missing the 's imo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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