Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[LeodhasXD]

52 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Well no, we are not remotely agreed the rule lasts the season, because it quite plainly doesnt. It lasts while restrictions on attendance exist. That's literally what the rule says. Its not open to any interpretation at all.

I am happy to agree with you its likely that will mean streaming is available all season but thats not remotely the same as Alloa deciding they will do regardless which is what you said. 

Do you think there'll be clubs however that once they have say, average numbers of fans back, will stop all of the extras?

[Homer Thompson]

That's the interesting bit of this. In lieu of a centralised system it seems to be down to the clubs to get this done. Build a scalable solution, have predictable workloads and you can make it profitable at whatever level you are at. That's the goal.
I see the trend away from a strict blackout even without the extenuating influence of covid. If there was a time to invest in that future; it's now.

There is going to be a centralised system. Once the cost of it has to be covered by the clubs, there's no way it will be profitable for clubs at this level.

That's not to say it won't be possible for clubs to run streaming at a profit. But if your costs are £15 a month, for example, and you make £20 a month I think you'd have to question whether or not it's worth it.

Once the geo-restictions are back in place, it's highly unlikely clubs like Queens and Alloa will be streaming to more than a handful of viewers.

[Scary Bear]

5 hours ago, rb123! said:

Don't want to be a downer but i definitely can't see fans in grounds in October put it that way. 

Way things are going i reckon probably January 2021 if you're lucky. 

The way it's spreading in crowded places likes pubs just now i wouldn't be surprised if they're shut in the coming weeks which makes people crowding at a football match impossible to see happening soon.

Raith Rovers will be getting the usual 12000 to 1500 fans. Pretty sure we could keep 2 metres apart. I’ll even stick a mask on if that helps. It’s also pretty much in the open air.

Fairly different environment from a pub.

[Skyline Drifter]

28 minutes ago, LeodhasXD said:

Do you think there'll be clubs however that once they have say, average numbers of fans back, will stop all of the extras?

Every club is selling to season ticket holders at the moment with a promise of free streaming while restrictions last. Inevitably then as long as ANY restriction exists, even if its just for over 70s, then there will be streaming available. Clubs wont be able to stop doing it even if they wanted to. Personally I cant see there NOT being at least some restrictions for a year so I'm sure you will be streaming all season. 

Its therefore a pointless question because unless theres no restrictions we will be streaming for this season. Hypothetically, if Covid disappears overnight with a vaccine by Jan 2021 then I would expect the right to stream domestically to be removed so clubs wouldnt get a choice then either.

Again though, hypothetically, if come next season clubs were given an option to stream or not then these things as ever would be an economic decision. If the income generated less costs of production less costs of people who choose not to attend in person as a result is expected to be positive they will likely do it. If not then they wouldnt. Personally I think anything that encourages "fans" to watch from their couch and not the stadium should be discouraged. Football without supporters is a different game. 

[LeodhasXD]

 

@Mr XOn the centralised system - I'm not convinced. Plus I don't know how much it's costing! Originally I thought it was going to save me work; fantastic! But the more I've learned I'm not convinced it's the answer. We'll see.  And I'm not banking on us staying in the league and being able to use it and pixellot in the future either. And with how much pixellot costs I'd happily stand outside in the cold all season!

My question to you @Skyline Drifter is because I have the feeling most clubs will put  the minimum effort in and like you say be happy to discourage fans from sitting on their couch. I'm in the opposite camp - there's nothing that substitutes being at a game and I think that's evidenced by the other leagues who don't operate a blackout.

But the guy who has to look after the kids that week or someone who's working overtime or can't travel from Inverness; that gives them an avenue to see the game anyway when they wouldn't have been there. If you can offer that to your season ticket holders - I know there's plenty of folk who toss up buying one because they can't guarantee getting to all the games and actually getting any discount from the season ticket. I see it adding in that respect - if you sell the extra season tickets you make your money back comfortably..

As you can tell, this is a product I believe adds value to your club. But to be fair it's uncharted territory; I could just be living the pipe dream.

 

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, LeodhasXD said:

And we will continue streaming anyway - like I said it'll just be marketed to a different audience, but practically, anyone will be able to take advantage. 

On what way is that different to the last 10 years or so where clubs have been operating streaming for non-uk viewers?  We haven’t just invented streaming, just opening it up for a bigger audience. At some point that will likely revert back to what we’ve had already.

[LeodhasXD]

5 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

On what way is that different to the last 10 years or so where clubs have been operating streaming for non-uk viewers?  We haven’t just invented streaming, just opening it up for a bigger audience. At some point that will likely revert back to what we’ve had already.

We're just late for the party! Covid's just the kick up the backside to get it started.

Being honest though we're getting in the infrastructure which we didn't have before. An actual fibre line. Pixellot's cool: there shouldn't be any blind spots - you'll hopefully have a predictable view of the pitch as a main match camera.

Edited August 8, 2020 by LeodhasXD

[Homer Thompson]

We're just late for the party! Covid's just the kick up the backside to get it started.
Being honest though we're getting in the infrastructure which we didn't have before. An actual fibre line. Pixellot's cool: there shouldn't be any blind spots - you'll hopefully have a predictable view of the pitch as a main match camera.

I'm not hugely convinced by pixellot either but as the SPFL are paying for the infrastructure and systems, I think it's fairly safe to assume there will be an obligation to use them.

I agree that clubs should offer streaming, if possible, as an option for fans but your scenario of a guy buying a season ticket only applies while there are crowd restrictions. Once they are lifted and we return to the previous streaming rules you won't be able to offer streaming as part of a season ticket. Nor will you be able to base a businesses model for streaming on UK fans using a vpn.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, LeodhasXD said:

 

@Mr XOn the centralised system - I'm not convinced. Plus I don't know how much it's costing! Originally I thought it was going to save me work; fantastic! But the more I've learned I'm not convinced it's the answer. We'll see.  And I'm not banking on us staying in the league and being able to use it and pixellot in the future either. And with how much pixellot costs I'd happily stand outside in the cold all season!

My question to you @Skyline Drifter is because I have the feeling most clubs will put  the minimum effort in and like you say be happy to discourage fans from sitting on their couch. I'm in the opposite camp - there's nothing that substitutes being at a game and I think that's evidenced by the other leagues who don't operate a blackout.

But the guy who has to look after the kids that week or someone who's working overtime or can't travel from Inverness; that gives them an avenue to see the game anyway when they wouldn't have been there. If you can offer that to your season ticket holders - I know there's plenty of folk who toss up buying one because they can't guarantee getting to all the games and actually getting any discount from the season ticket. I see it adding in that respect - if you sell the extra season tickets you make your money back comfortably..

As you can tell, this is a product I believe adds value to your club. But to be fair it's uncharted territory; I could just be living the pipe dream.

 

I'm pretty sceptical about it long term. If you allow it domestically (which I dont think they will) then how do you ensure ONLY that guy in Inverness and the guy childminding watch it. How do you know they dont all watch it in the family? How do you know he doesnt get his mates round? What's to stop a couple of pubs in Dfs buying a stream of Alloa v QoS off you and broadcasting it on a big screen and causing large numbers of away fans just not to travel? If you are only proposing offering it to season ticket holders I fail to see any benefits. Those are the guys who go anyway and the only times they cant wont be enough to make it worthwhile. 

The whole concept of domestic streaming doesnt sit well with me. Its brilliant we can do it in an extreme circumstance like this but as a long term idea by choice I would need a lot of convincing.

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

On what way is that different to the last 10 years or so where clubs have been operating streaming for non-uk viewers?  We haven’t just invented streaming, just opening it up for a bigger audience. At some point that will likely revert back to what we’ve had already.

Its different because clubs like us and Alloa, and I presume Arbroath and Morton, possibly Ayr, have never offered streaming at all. Now we can. Its no different for you at Dunfermline.

54 minutes ago, Mr X said:

'm not hugely convinced by pixellot either but as the SPFL are paying for the infrastructure and systems, I think it's fairly safe to assume there will be an obligation to use them.

 

As far as I know theres no obligation to use them. Dont think Premier sides generally are doing so. They largely already had streaming and have expanded it instead. I would think Hearts, Dunfermline, etc will do the same.

[Skyline Drifter]

7 minutes ago, Mr X said:

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

As far as I know theres no obligation to use them. Dont think Premier sides generally are doing so. They largely already had streaming and have expanded it instead. I would think Hearts, Dunfermline, etc will do the same.

Are those club's also having the same infrastructure installed by the SPFL?

Yes. Pixellot coming in is purely coincidental to Covid and has given all parties the oppprtunity to piggy back it if they didnt have their own streaming platform already but thats not why its there. Its to do with in play betting info I think.

[itzdrk]

Ayr streamed to abroad through AU Media afaik. 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

Ayr streamed to abroad through AU Media afaik. 

Fair enough, wasnt sure about Ayr.

[TxRover]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I'm pretty sceptical about it long term. If you allow it domestically (which I dont think they will) then how do you ensure ONLY that guy in Inverness and the guy childminding watch it. How do you know they dont all watch it in the family? How do you know he doesnt get his mates round? What's to stop a couple of pubs in Dfs buying a stream of Alloa v QoS off you and broadcasting it on a big screen and causing large numbers of away fans just not to travel? If you are only proposing offering it to season ticket holders I fail to see any benefits. Those are the guys who go anyway and the only times they cant wont be enough to make it worthwhile. 

The whole concept of domestic streaming doesnt sit well with me. Its brilliant we can do it in an extreme circumstance like this but as a long term idea by choice I would need a lot of convincing.

Its different because clubs like us and Alloa, and I presume Arbroath and Morton, possibly Ayr, have never offered streaming at all. Now we can. Its no different for you at Dunfermline.

As far as I know theres no obligation to use them. Dont think Premier sides generally are doing so. They largely already had streaming and have expanded it instead. I would think Hearts, Dunfermline, etc will do the same.

In my opinion, the reality is that the majority of “fans” will prefer attending games, while a minority would prefer to watch on the sofa. So let’s see how we monetize this pie. There used to be local blackouts on NFL games that didn’t sellout before they figured out that the revenues from commercials during the broadcast were worthwhile in those markets. You want real money, sell a season pass to fitba over the air. Offer a commercial deal for pubs and such, and broadcast all the game through at least the Championship and, if able, League One. Offer a variety of packages to individuals, a Season Ticket (home games only), a Team Pass (all games), a League Pass and a Fitba pass. Small advertising banners and perhaps a score box/status box in the corner with a sponsors name could provide revenue and be accounted for by the Pixellot system. Then you simply have to have enforcement of the commercial sector, which might be easy if you make sure the fans know some of the money lost by cheating bars effectively comes out of their own teams paycheck.

Until you could roll this out, a TV season pass for this year only could be offered at perhaps 60-75% the cost of a full season ticket. A few season ticket buyers would have a snit, but the majority wouldn’t mind, especially if it provides extra revenue to the team. The concern about fans staying home is, I think, overblown. I watched the majority of last season at £5 a home game and listened to most road games at £3 a go...would I have paid more, sure...would I have attended any of those games, not a hope because of distance, time and cost. The net was the Rovers pocketed about £100 from me they wouldn’t have received otherwise and there are plenty of domestic possibilities like this. 

With regard to a pass for watching all games, there will be arguments about less traveling support, but those that travel will anyway...those that can’t often are more constrained by time and money, two things a streaming service could address.

[craigkillie]

How much advertising revenue do you think the SPFL or the clubs will generate from a single camera live stream of Alloa v Greenock Morton when the bulk of the target audience are already at the game?

Which bars are you anticipating will pay to broadcast these games instead of the English Premier League matches which they'd presumably also be allowed to show given that the 3pm blackout would no longer exist.

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

How much advertising revenue do you think the SPFL or the clubs will generate from a single camera live stream of Alloa v Greenock Morton when the bulk of the target audience are already at the game?

Which bars are you anticipating will pay to broadcast these games instead of the English Premier League matches which they'd presumably also be allowed to show given that the 3pm blackout would no longer exist.

Largely none. On a commercial basis, trying to compare lower division Scottish football which has the richest League in the world playing at the same time in the same country as a potential product with the NFL which has effectively 32 teams in the entire world and games kicking off all across the weekend from Thursday to Monday is one of the most pointless comparisons you could possibly do.

I don't think it's a massive reach though that one or two pubs might pay for an individual stream of an away game and market it to QoS fans, Kilmarnock fans, etc when they are away to Inverness, Ross County, Aberdeen, in particular. Thereby getting the host club oone payment of £12  or whatever it is for the equivalent of a couple of dozen away fans who would have otherwise attended the game maybe.

[Doctor]

What is a “Falkirk”?

Central belt town where middle class weegie scum go for their second home

[stevoraith]

We need less football on TV, not more.

Raith Rovers or Morton or Queens are your team because you can go to the games, sit in your seat with you mates, feel a weird sense of tribalism, get a pie at half time and miss the goals cos you went for a pish.

If you take that away, what is the point in watching Alloa v Arbroath when you could be watching Barca v Real or Liverpool v Man City?

Live streaming is a great addition for this season and the likes of Raith TV do a great job catering for overseas fans and should continue to do so but domestic live streaming is a terrible idea under normal circumstances.

[Homer Thompson]

We need less football on TV, not more.

Raith Rovers or Morton or Queens are your team because you can go to the games, sit in your seat with you mates, feel a weird sense of tribalism, get a pie at half time and miss the goals cos you went for a pish.

If you take that away, what is the point in watching Alloa v Arbroath when you could be watching Barca v Real or Liverpool v Man City?

Live streaming is a great addition for this season and the likes of Raith TV do a great job catering for overseas fans and should continue to do so but domestic live streaming is a terrible idea under normal circumstances.

Which is also an argument for domestic streaming.

There are plenty of fans who used to go to games but can't for health or geographical reasons who have no interest in watching the EPL but woikd love to watch their team.

The question is, are there more of them than fans who would chose to watch a stream instead of going to the game?

[TheScarf]

The games should be accessible to all so domestic streaming should be permanent now imo. If clubs can afford if of course. 
 

There’s fans of all clubs all over the UK who obviously can’t attend games so why not have a service where they can watch their team every week?

[TxRover]

On 08/08/2020 at 19:29, Skyline Drifter said:

Largely none. On a commercial basis, trying to compare lower division Scottish football which has the richest League in the world playing at the same time in the same country as a potential product with the NFL which has effectively 32 teams in the entire world and games kicking off all across the weekend from Thursday to Monday is one of the most pointless comparisons you could possibly do.

I don't think it's a massive reach though that one or two pubs might pay for an individual stream of an away game and market it to QoS fans, Kilmarnock fans, etc when they are away to Inverness, Ross County, Aberdeen, in particular. Thereby getting the host club oone payment of £12  or whatever it is for the equivalent of a couple of dozen away fans who would have otherwise attended the game maybe.

Not completely nil, but it is small, I will agree. But with a system like Pixellot deployed and financed by the betting industry, the opportunity cost is close to nil too. Your vision of a local hosting some fans far away games is music to those owners, and there would certainly be a few willing to pony up a tidy sum...if they are hosting 24 fans, surely £25-50 a game would be reasonable...pennies indeed, but still revenue. The honest answer for TV revenue is sharing, but the OF won’t allow it to happen.

I was not comparing to the NFL except to note that easing the rules on broadcast increased game viewership, thus revenue, and had no impact on in person attendance, so the principle is similar. If fitba doesn’t increase its audience...

Edited August 10, 2020 by TxRover