D'Jaffo Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Do Premiership and league 1 & 2 not get a vote ? and if not, why not ?Because they are asking what Championship clubs will able to play on the 17th of October. They needed 8 clubs to say they could and they got 8 clubs. That has absolutely no relevance to Premiership or L1 and L2 clubs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, jagsfan57 said: Do Premiership and league 1 & 2 not get a vote ? and if not, why not ? Why does the start date and number of fixtures in the Championship affect the Premiership, L1 & L2 teams? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 44 minutes ago, virginton said: I don't see why Hearts would vote on anything as a Championship club until their rolling tantrum gets smacked down once and for all. The sooner the better tbh. I'm hoping once the zombie that is reconstruction is put down tomorrow they will have to put up or shut up wrt. legal action. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 There’s surely going to be some sort of official contingency for what happens if a) crowds aren’t allowed back in January and b) what happens if the season needs to be halted again, right?Right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Paco said: There’s surely going to be some sort of official contingency for what happens if a) crowds aren’t allowed back in January and b) what happens if the season needs to be halted again, right? Right? Wrong 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 Interesting point made by Cosgrove yesterday on the radio, coronavirus issues could have saved hearts and partick. Who’s to say they might haven’t have lost all the games to play? Theyre not the only clubs who suffered, it’s feasible we could have won the playoffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bad chad Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said: Interesting point made by Cosgrove yesterday on the radio, coronavirus issues could have saved hearts and partick. Who’s to say they might haven’t have lost all the games to play? Then they would have been relegated on merit at the end of the season? Is THAT the answer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trogdor Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said: Interesting point made by Cosgrove yesterday on the radio, coronavirus issues could have saved hearts and partick. Who’s to say they might haven’t have lost all the games to play? Theyre not the only clubs who suffered, it’s feasible we could have won the playoffs. Yeah, the indignation from Partick and Hearts is quite annoying. They were both bottom of their respective leagues on merit (or lack thereof). Its a fecking pandemic with no ideal solution to conclude the football season. Just accept it rather than accusing every other club of shafting them. They've been moaning for too long. I loved Thistle's latest statement - nothing says tears and snotters quite like providing a definition of self-interest and then saying that's not our motivation. It almost annoys me as much as the opportunism of Brora & Kelty. Just promote both of us its only fair. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, bad chad said: Then they would have been relegated on merit at the end of the season? Is THAT the answer? They might have been ten points adrift. Now they have a potential get out of jail card. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_M Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 27 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said: They might have been ten points adrift. Now they have a potential get out of jail card. They already had a get out of jail card. They only had to beat St Mirren in the last game before lockdown that probably shouldn't have been played. They blew it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: Easy bit first - I assume a fixture list will be drawn up randomly as it always is. 5 sides will get 14 home, 13 away. 5 sides will get the other way round. We had that situation in 14 team leagues for the better part of two decades in the 70s and 80s. Nobody lost a lot of sleep over it. It is anticipated that crowds are unlikely before January anyway so the advantage of an extra home game is limited anyway. The pros of starting in October is more difficult. Basically, the closer you are to a first team squad intact anyway then the less relevant the starting date is. The single biggest issue with playing closed doors is meeting wage bills with severely restricted income. Now, if you already have to all intents and purposes a first team squad as for instance Hearts and Dundee do, then that's semi irrelevant. They are going to have to pay these players anyway and may as well get them playing and try to bring in some net income (ie if they can raise more money from online subs, and various other promotions and sponsorships when actually playing than it costs to put games on then they are better off). To a lesser extent most of the division have something close to a 1st team available to play even if they need to flesh out squads a bit. The part time sides have less of an issue as their players are not dependent on them for a living wage anyway. I guess given Alloa have re-signed half their squad in the last week their contracts are probably along the lines of nominal pay until they actually return to playing. Also, furlough ceases at the end of October anyway and support is limited in October itself so the financial benefits of "mothballing" are far less for the clubs. The other major cost in coming back "early" before crowds are allowed is player and staff testing but the Anderson Grant is expected to address this. The main benefit though is far more difficulty to quantify and that's what the long terms cost in NOT playing are. The longer the division shuts down, the more supporters will get out of the habit of attending and may find other things to do. There will be wall to wall English football by this time next week. The Scottish Premier will follow in August. If fans get into the habit (more than they were already) of not attending football and watching other clubs on tv instead then there are long term ramifications for the feasibility of clubs at this level. That's about all I can see? Anybody want to add anything? Personally I think it's mental. I understand why big clubs with major support bases or wealthy owners feel they can sustain it short term but I think it's enormously risky. From our point of view we'd clearly be better mothballing for months than recruiting 15 players + to play with no guarantee of much income and the very real possibility of a 2nd wave or a localised outbreak shutting the crowds out for much longer. There's no realistic way ANY club, even Hearts, is actually making money playing closed doors. I would want a lot more certainty about when crowds can be "normal" before I committed to it personally. The first part has been a very real possibility for several weeks. It's not a new suggestion though I think it's now more likely than not that the lower leagues are going to return too so less relevant anyway. The second part was a suggestion at one point to do with renegotiation of the tv deal. I don't think it was being pushed by the OF themselves but as a potential negotiating point on the tv deal. However it's not been heard for a week or two and they announced agreement of an amended contract so I presume it's no longer a factor unless we've just not been told yet. I'd hate it to come to a choice between starting in October, or letting the likes of Falkirk leapfrog us, but if it did, I'd back a decision that saw us sitting idle, while allowing the latter to happen. It would sting a bit, but that feeling shouldn't govern our response as a club. I reserve the right to revisit that view, however, if it saw Dobbie finish up with someone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paco said: There’s surely going to be some sort of official contingency for what happens if a) crowds aren’t allowed back in January and b) what happens if the season needs to be halted again, right? Right? As entertaining as many aspects of this fiasco have been, this should have been the focus weeks ago. Instead, despite knowing for weeks that reconstruction was extremely unlikely, we've wasted weeks with in-fighting, dossiers and statements, which has got everyone nowhere. There needs to be a general agreement regarding what happens when a season cannot be completed - whether it's average points per game, who was top at halfway etc, and what the cut off point on voiding a season would be, plus all the issues with what happens with prize money. In addition, there should be numerous contingency plans drawn up for the coming season with various possible scenarios and, as far as possible, what the agreed actions could be if the season is affected again. This entire shambles could have been avoided if there had been clear procedures in place regarding how a season would be decided in the event it wasn't completed. I don't say that to be smart after the event (I certainly never thought this would happen!), but to point out the importance of getting this sorted now so it doesn't happen again. Hopefully reconstruction is finally put to bed tomorrow and we can get on with focusing on next season. Like you though, I have this feeling we are all going to stagger towards a new season without any of these things in place. Edited June 14, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Jamie_M said: They already had a get out of jail card. They only had to beat St Mirren in the last game before lockdown that probably shouldn't have been played. They blew it. As did Partick when they failed to beat at home a tanking, woeful Queen of the South team who had just been eviscerated by The Famous three days earlier. And failed to win any other league game in the whole of 2020 for that matter. It's truly the world's greatest injustice then that they were papped down to the seaside leagues for being utter dogshit by the cruel judgment of the SPFL. Edited June 14, 2020 by vikingTON 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, virginton said: As did Partick when they failed to beat at home a tanking, woeful Queen of the South team who had just been eviscerated by The Famous three days earlier. And failed to win any other league game in the whole of 2020 for that matter. It's truly the world's greatest injustice then that they were papped down to the seaside leagues for being utter dogshit by the cruel judgment of the SPFL. It's true. Without obviously being aware of the full and immediate significance at the time, both Hearts and Partick Thistle had direct opportunities to render all their whinging unnecessary, just before football stopped. Both failed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said: Easy bit first - I assume a fixture list will be drawn up randomly as it always is. 5 sides will get 14 home, 13 away. 5 sides will get the other way round. We had that situation in 14 team leagues for the better part of two decades in the 70s and 80s. Nobody lost a lot of sleep over it. I think the way it worked back then was the top seven teams from the previous season got the extra home game? So Hearts, Inverness, Dundee, Ayr and Arbroath would get 14 home games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 48 minutes ago, Radford said: I think the way it worked back then was the top seven teams from the previous season got the extra home game? So Hearts, Inverness, Dundee, Ayr and Arbroath would get 14 home games. Did it? I genuinely wasn't aware of that. I just assumed it was season about as far as possible. To be fair, whilst I remember it, I was in my teens and not into the detail of how they organised it. Would make some sense I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thereisalight.. Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Paisley Ton said: As good as it gets. Keep players on Gov scheme so limiting number of game behind closed doors with hopefully crowds back in Jan 21. Would not expect great confidence in supporters attending until then since good number are older generation and classed as vulnerable. Nobody would be forcing the old yin’s in with a cattle prod. If they didn’t feel comfortable going then they could stay away. Having supporters wear face coverings would easily be a way around the “fear” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Terrace Gazza Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 https://mobile.twitter.com/Kheredine2018Here we go again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossBFaeDundee Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poet of the Macabre Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Thistle actually were very lucky to not be further adrift at the bottom as they only drew with us thanks to an offside, last-minute equaliser in the final game before shutdown. They deserve no reprieve, whether they get one or not. I actually think setting up a rule where there are checkpoints that are used if the league is forced to finish early would actually make the early games more interesting. Edit - Cheers to SD for the detailed and helpful answer. Informative as always. Edited June 14, 2020 by Poet of the Macabre 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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