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Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship


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18 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

So you got it wrong! I am not sure what attempted  bribe you are referring to. As stated at the time of the programme there was no conditions attached that would save Hearts or any other club!

Hard to understand why people thought a Hearts fan offering clubs money, at the exact same time as Hearts were trying to get the same clubs to vote for a proposal that benefited Hearts, was a bribe.

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2 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

It’s ridiculous that games will be behind closed doors anyway come Oct. the numbers of covid deaths/cases are becoming so minuscule in Scotland that lower league teams could probably play now with social distancing measures and nobody would be catching covid/killing their grannies 

Hard to figure out how cases and deaths have plummeted ever since lockdown/self isolation was enforced. 

Must just be a coincidence. 

Edited by RandomGuy.
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2 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

SPFL chief Neil Doncaster says the donation will 'protect clubs from the worst effects' of the pandemic. 
 

The valuable money is available to the clubs now and as it turns out it wasn’t a big Hearts conspiracy. You got it wrong!

It was introduced by the Hearts Chair who cryptically referred to anonymous benefactors, it turned out it was a major sponsor of Hearts. Her no strings line has turned out to be untrue, the need for due process was proven when Doncaster actually carried it out.

The tubes in the radio and you portrayed it as a blank  cheque being handed in.

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1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

It was introduced by the Hearts Chair who cryptically referred to anonymous benefactors, it turned out it was a major sponsor of Hearts. Her no strings line has turned out to be untrue, the need for due process was proven when Doncaster actually carried it out.

The tubes in the radio and you portrayed it as a blank  cheque being handed in.

Don’t talk nonsense. The story when it was broken that afternoon stated Budge knew of people that were willing to put a considerable amount of money in to Scottish Football, with no strings attached, that would help clubs during this crisis. You and others thought otherwise. £3m is a substantial  amount for Scottish football.  Nobody mentioned “blank cheques” You are making things up now. You got it wrong and you obviously  ain’t going to admit it. I will move on! Going round in circles here

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On 30/05/2020 at 14:48, Sting777 said:

Astonishing stuff on Sportsound just now. Interview with Budge where she says that she has philanthropists ready to pump multi millions into Scottish Football, especially the lower leagues, with no catches (won’t save  Hearts, Thistle or Stranraer) She approached SPFL and was told to do a paper!! Doncaster getting flamed. Money is ready to go into clubs accounts now and they are being told to put in a paper. You couldn’t make it up. 

Will we do a spot the difference from reality game?

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12 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Will we do a spot the difference from reality game?

Reality?......where was it ever portrayed as a blank cheque?? In your head only, by the looks of it

Edited by Sting777
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On 30/05/2020 at 14:48, Sting777 said:

Astonishing stuff on Sportsound just now. Interview with Budge where she says that she has philanthropists ready to pump multi millions into Scottish Football, especially the lower leagues, with no catches (won’t save  Hearts, Thistle or Stranraer) She approached SPFL and was told to do a paper!! Doncaster getting flamed. Money is ready to go into clubs accounts now and they are being told to put in a paper. You couldn’t make it up. 

 

On 30/05/2020 at 15:03, Skyline Drifter said:

I will listen when and if I get a chance. On childcare at the moment. The point stands though. If Ann Budge has access to philanthropic donations / sponsorship in multi millions why is she only coming forward with it now and not months ago or even last week. And not when its only at the same time as last ditch self serving "Hearts must be saved for the good of Scottish football" proposals. 

Perhaps its an enormous coincidence. Or perhaps not....

 

On 30/05/2020 at 15:27, Skyline Drifter said:

Yeah, everybody on the panel couldnt comprehend a few weeks ago why the spfl couldnt just pay every club the value of bottom place either when debating the season ending vote. You will forgive me if I take the "astonishment" of a panel with the business knowledge of a plant pot with a pinch of salt.

If this money is genuinely available is it so unreasonable to ask for evidence of source and proposals / conditions for use rather just " oh yes please, here are my bank details, how much am I getting"?

Uh huh, complete coincidence. And these massive philanthropists didnt go direct to the League, they went only though Ann Budge? 

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are its a duck. If it turns out to be a swan it will still be a swan once somebody writes it down on a bit of paper.

 

On 31/05/2020 at 10:20, Skyline Drifter said:

This is true but I imagine what was really meant here isnt ID'ing the source of the funds which presumably should be very easy. I imagine the two crucial questions are:

1 - what are the conditions, if any, attached to this donation? ie is it conditional on some form of reconstruction, or only payable to clubs outside top division (who are set to play anyway) or only payable in the top two divisions (to ensure Hearts can play), etc

2 - how would it be proposed to be distributed? Blanket amount per club? Blanket amount per registered professional player (since my understanding is it was proposed to pay for covid testing)? Different amounts per club depending on division (which makes little sense since presumably the cost of tests is the same). 

Etc. These are the things that need clarified. If its truly just an arbitrary donation there is nothing stopping the donors from writing 42 cheques right now and posting them. It doesnt have to go through the League. Its not without conditions because she already said it was to ensure lower league clubs could play (although underwriting the additional cost of testing will not in itself solve the problem for clubs with no income to hire a squad).

 

On 31/05/2020 at 11:29, Skyline Drifter said:

Seriously, are you 12? Nobody, but nobody, has expressed a lack of interest. A lot of cynicism and scepticism but thats not the same thing. She / they havent been asked for anything unreasonable. 

 

58 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

I said what was getting said on the programme live, at the time.   It was you and others that clearly weren’t listening to the programme that said it was all a big Hearts conspiracy. You got it wrong! The money is available! Move on!

Mmm, I assume I'm one of the 'others'? A selection of my responses to your original post are above. I'm comfortable with what was said then and now. Notwithstanding whatever grandstanding Ann Budge did on the original Sportsound and the general "astonishment" of a panel of people with limited business understanding on that programme, neither Budge nor Anderson were asked for anything unreasonable in relation to the monies. Some clarity over the purpose and conditions was requested and some scepticism about the manner of its introduction. In the end there clearly are some relatively minor conditions on the donation, which has been made through the SPFL Trust for Gift Aid reclaim purposes. However, it won't be difficult for League level clubs to demonstrate a community benefit in the money but it can't be used for wages. I imagine generally it will be used for Covid testing to get clubs back to playing. Otherwise some lower division clubs may genuinely struggle to spend it outwith payroll.

In the end it's turned out to pretty much what it said on the tin. Great. Nobody will be ungrateful. There's little doubt the method of bringing it to the public domain was intended to provide PR for Hearts and against the SPFL.

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7 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

 

 

 

 

Mmm, I assume I'm one of the 'others'? A selection of my responses to your original post are above. I'm comfortable with what was said then and now. Notwithstanding whatever grandstanding Ann Budge did on the original Sportsound and the general "astonishment" of a panel of people with limited business understanding on that programme, neither Budge nor Anderson were asked for anything unreasonable in relation to the monies. Some clarity over the purpose and conditions was requested and some scepticism about the manner of its introduction. In the end there clearly are some relatively minor conditions on the donation, which has been made through the SPFL Trust for Gift Aid reclaim purposes. However, it won't be difficult for League level clubs to demonstrate a community benefit in the money but it can't be used for wages. I imagine generally it will be used for Covid testing to get clubs back to playing. Otherwise some lower division clubs may genuinely struggle to spend it outwith payroll.

In the end it's turned out to pretty much what it said on the tin. Great. Nobody will be ungrateful. There's little doubt the method of bringing it to the public domain was intended to provide PR for Hearts and against the SPFL.

Money is available to clubs and it might help them with testing which in turn could allow them to start the season albeit later on in the year. The cynicism from certain people about Hearts conspiracies when it was clear they hadn’t even listened to the programme and clear that neither Hearts or any other clubs would be saved was ridiculous. That was my only point! The fact the money is there now, to help clubs,  backs this up and as of this moment in time Hearts are in the Championship

Edited by Sting777
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5 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

Reality?......where was it ever portrayed as a blank cheque?? In your head only, by the looks of it

The reality is you got your knickers in a twist when a few dumplings on the radio went into a tabloid frenzy, "you couldn't make it up". As explained to you then and again now. It isn't legal to accept money on the basis suggested. The connection to Hearts and the attempt to garner goodwill is quite clear.

You thought money was going straight into club bank accounts, it obviously isn't.

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8 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

The reality is you got your knickers in a twist when a few dumplings on the radio went into a tabloid frenzy, "you couldn't make it up". As explained to you then and again now. It isn't legal to accept money on the basis suggested. The connection to Hearts and the attempt to garner goodwill is quite clear.

You thought money was going straight into club bank accounts, it obviously isn't.

I was saying what was being reported on the programme. You got it wrong! Where is the “blank cheque” comment? You made it up!! Hearts are still in the Championship at this moment,  as far as I can see

Edited by Sting777
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1 minute ago, Sting777 said:

I was saying what was being reported on the programme. You got it wrong! Where is the “blank cheque” comment. You made it up!!

Blank cheque is a figure of speech to reflect your unbridled optimism based on Budge and her performing chimps on Sportsound. Referring to more than one philanthropist, multi millions, ready to be distributed and you and their failures to see that due process would be needed

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3 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

I was saying what was being reported on the programme. You got it wrong! Where is the “blank cheque” comment? You made it up!! Hearts are still in the Championship at this moment,  as far as I can see

On reflection the studio guests were proven right  in the end.  I also notice a lack of comment on why Doncaster couldn’t be found and didn’t understand the terms of any gift. At the least the narrative has changed from being  bribery to goodwill 

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16 minutes ago, Sting777 said:

Money is available to clubs and it might help them with testing which in turn could allow them to start the season albeit later on in the year. The cynicism from certain people about Hearts conspiracies when it was clear they hadn’t even listened to the programme and clear that neither Hearts or any other clubs would be saved was ridiculous. That was my only point! The fact the money is there now, to help clubs,  backs this up and as of this moment in time Hearts are in the Championship

Not really sure what your point is here. Money is available. I certainly wasn't ever doubting that. You don't go on the radio and say it's available if you aren't going to follow it through. I was sceptical about the conditions and scathing about the manner of introduction and the general incredulity that the SPFL wanted a formal written process to take place. Turns out the conditions are pretty close to zero and that's absolutely great. The other criticisms remain valid though.

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Leaving aside Budge's clear grandstanding, and without wishing to be ungrateful, is this money going to be of much use?

If it can't be spent on wages, but is earmarked for testing, doesn't that just bring closer the dangerous conditions of needing to pay footballers to play, whilst unable to charge people to watch?

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2 minutes ago, AyrExile said:

On reflection the studio guests were proven right  in the end.  I also notice a lack of comment on why Doncaster couldn’t be found and didn’t understand the terms of any gift. At the least the narrative has changed from being  bribery to goodwill 

In what way were they "right"?

As I understand it, and I freely concede I still haven't heard the programme in question, Ann Budge dropped this as  bombshell piece of news and the contributions of the studio guests were to be astonished that the SPFL hadn't lifted their skirts and yelled "Show me the money". It was perfectly correct that the SPFL undertook a process of due diligence.  I fail to see how Doncaster "couldn't be found"? He was quoted the following day saying initial discussions had gone well and there was concrete money on the table.

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3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Leaving aside Budge's clear grandstanding, and without wishing to be ungrateful, is this money going to be of much use?

If it can't be spent on wages, but is earmarked for testing, doesn't that just bring closer the dangerous conditions of needing to pay footballers to play, whilst unable to charge people to watch?

It isn't earmarked for testing. The condition is only that it isn't spent on payroll (and that the club can justify a community benefit which is pretty much self explanatory in a football club). As long as a club mounts up £50k of costs in any other manner (I'm unsure what the time period is) then it will be able to justify receipt.

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1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

In what way were they "right"?

As I understand it, and I freely concede I still haven't heard the programme in question, Ann Budge dropped this as  bombshell piece of news and the contributions of the studio guests were to be astonished that the SPFL hadn't lifted their skirts and yelled "Show me the money". It was perfectly correct that the SPFL undertook a process of due diligence.  I fail to see how Doncaster "couldn't be found"? He was quoted the following day saying initial discussions had gone well and there was concrete money on the table.

Perhaps you should listen to the relevant episode

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1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Leaving aside Budge's clear grandstanding, and without wishing to be ungrateful, is this money going to be of much use?

If it can't be spent on wages, but is earmarked for testing, doesn't that just bring closer the dangerous conditions of needing to pay footballers to play, whilst unable to charge people to watch?

The money helps.  But Doncaster coming out and saying it prevents the worse effects is clearly wrong.  The worst effect of the current situation is clubs are unable to access their main source of income. In relative to that testing(and other additional costs) are pretty low.   Possibly outside of the smaller part-time clubs most would be able to absorb these additional costs had they been able to receive their normal levels of income.

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1 minute ago, Skyline Drifter said:

It isn't earmarked for testing. The condition is only that it isn't spent on payroll (and that the club can justify a community benefit which is pretty much self explanatory in a football club). As long as a club mounts up £50k of costs in any other manner (I'm unsure what the time period is) then it will be able to justify receipt.

Ok, "earmarked" was the wrong word.

Is there not an element of concern though?  If clubs are gifted this money, but not allowed to spend it on their major outgoing, it seems a rather odd way of countering the crisis.  I'm worried that it removes a valid 'excuse' not to play, without really addressing the fundamental difficulty.

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