Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[true_rover]

In terms of players? To be honest I don't think it is.
Dundee had three players out of contract. Hearts let a few go this week but have clearly got more than enough players to field a team. Ayr have got at least 11 at the moment though the fact they've extended furlough means it's not entirely clear how many will stay and how many will eventually go. They've deferred a decision effectively. Inverness have announced today they've extended a handful of contracts and that six first team players have left, although three of those were known a while ago. Arbroath extended a pile of contracts last week. Dunfermline still have more than 11 players despite letting half the squad leave last week. Raith have given 6 month extensions to their entire squad I think I read yesterday.
I'm unsure about Morton and Alloa but it does look like most of the division could at least field a team of some standard right now and it's probably why there appears to be a general preference to play than not.

Raith extensions were until the end of July.

[johnnydun]

6 minutes ago, true_rover said:

 

 

Raith extensions were until the end of July.

 

How many are still contracted for next season?

[renton]

10 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

How many are still contracted for next season?

9, I think.

[foreverarover]

I don’t want interfere in your fun with Viking ton but why do you have more sympathy with Kelty/ Brora than for East Fife, Airdrie, Edinburgh City etc. All of them would have had to win two play off games to gain promotion. What makes Kelty/ Brora a special case?

What makes the special is that the spfl have single handedly forced junior clubs to join a senior set up. For what, I to find the first season the door is slammed shut and a big f@ck you is shown to them? There is supposed to be a pyramid in place.

[RossBFaeDundee]

 

[Monkey Tennis]

1 hour ago, Skyline Drifter said:

In terms of players? To be honest I don't think it is.

Dundee had three players out of contract. Hearts let a few go this week but have clearly got more than enough players to field a team. Ayr have got at least 11 at the moment though the fact they've extended furlough means it's not entirely clear how many will stay and how many will eventually go. They've deferred a decision effectively. Inverness have announced today they've extended a handful of contracts and that six first team players have left, although three of those were known a while ago. Arbroath extended a pile of contracts last week. Dunfermline still have more than 11 players despite letting half the squad leave last week. Raith have given 6 month extensions to their entire squad I think I read yesterday.

I'm unsure about Morton and Alloa but it does look like most of the division could at least field a team of some standard right now and it's probably why there appears to be a general preference to play than not.

Fair enough - my mistake.

Have lots of those clubs however, not extended merely as a sort of goodwill gesture that enables them to exploit current furlough arrangements on behalf of beleaguered players?   I accept that even if this is the case, it means they meet the criterion right now, of being capable of fielding a side.

Nonetheless, it doesn't really project well into the future, given that furlough must sometime end.  These clubs surely haven't newly committed to meeting players' wages for a year or more without knowing they'll be able to play in front of crowds, have they?

[foreverarover]

Exactly this. Allan (put a plan in place) Preston is an absolute buffoon

Exactly, I'm still curious how these millionaires have no sense to speak to the spfl directly in the first place?

[foreverarover]

I can't see why not.
The SPFL may put it that because they have made it safe to play by providing money for testing, clubs will not have an excuse not to play behind closed doors or not, as clubs will just have to budget for the new season accordingly as they do every season.

The big issue is that teams with what they class as valuable assets or the better players on contracts for next season. Those contracts are paid for with the intent of a crowd being in the stadium. I'm thus case the club has far less money to bring in other players. You are now making an advantage to any club who has no players on the nooks at this time for next season. These clubs can budget easier for players withiut the issue as stated. It's just not feasible imo.

[Skyline Drifter]

26 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Fair enough - my mistake.

Have lots of those clubs however, not extended merely as a sort of goodwill gesture that enables them to exploit current furlough arrangements on behalf of beleaguered players?   I accept that even if this is the case, it means they meet the criterion right now, of being capable of fielding a side.

Nonetheless, it doesn't really project well into the future, given that furlough must sometime end.  These clubs surely haven't newly committed to meeting players' wages for a year or more without knowing they'll be able to play in front of crowds, have they?

Ayr and Raith have for the moment only extended for furlough and deferred decisions I think.

But Inverness have announced today that 4 players have signed new deals with "more welcome news" to follow later this week. https://ictfc.com/end-of-season-2019-20-squad-update It doesn't say they've signed for a year but it's the clear implication, not that it's a short term furlough extension.

Arbroath have confirmed Tam O'Brien signed a 3 year contract extension last week (he already had a year but presumably it involves a wage rise since he was the best centre half in this league last year). They haven't confirmed anything else but the Arbroath thread says the local paper are reporting Bobby Linn has signed a 2 year extension and two other players have been offered extensions.

Dundee took up the option to add a year to Christie Elliot's contract.

We've extended nobody. Neither have Dunfermline though the rumours are they offered an extension to Lee Ashcroft but he turned it down. Hearts let everyone out of contract over 23 leave and have said they won't be signing anyone new.

I don't think Morton have said anything yet, though I assume that likely means they haven't extended anyone. Alloa too have been completely silent.

 

There's no doubt when furlough ends is there? Unless some sort of extension appears for football furlough is ending completely on 31 October and will be eased back from 1st August so that employers progressively meet more of the costs each month in August, September and October before it ends completely. Basically in terms of it being "free" it stops at 31 July.

[johnnydun]

7 minutes ago, foreverarover said:

11 hours ago, johnnydun said:

I can't see why not.
The SPFL may put it that because they have made it safe to play by providing money for testing, clubs will not have an excuse not to play behind closed doors or not, as clubs will just have to budget for the new season accordingly as they do every season.

The big issue is that teams with what they class as valuable assets or the better players on contracts for next season. Those contracts are paid for with the intent of a crowd being in the stadium. I'm thus case the club has far less money to bring in other players. You are now making an advantage to any club who has no players on the nooks at this time for next season. These clubs can budget easier for players withiut the issue as stated. It's just not feasible imo.

What's not feasible? Sorry can't make head nor tail of your post.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Ayr and Raith have for the moment only extended for furlough and deferred decisions I think.

But Inverness have announced today that 4 players have signed new deals with "more welcome news" to follow later this week. https://ictfc.com/end-of-season-2019-20-squad-update It doesn't say they've signed for a year but it's the clear implication, not that it's a short term furlough extension.

Arbroath have confirmed Tam O'Brien signed a 3 year contract extension last week (he already had a year but presumably it involves a wage rise since he was the best centre half in this league last year). They haven't confirmed anything else but the Arbroath thread says the local paper are reporting Bobby Linn has signed a 2 year extension and two other players have been offered extensions.

Dundee took up the option to add a year to Christie Elliot's contract.

We've extended nobody. Neither have Dunfermline though the rumours are they offered an extension to Lee Ashcroft but he turned it down. Hearts let everyone out of contract over 23 leave and have said they won't be signing anyone new.

I don't think Morton have said anything yet, though I assume that likely means they haven't extended anyone. Alloa too have been completely silent.

 

There's no doubt when furlough ends is there? Unless some sort of extension appears for football furlough is ending completely on 31 October and will be eased back from 1st August so that employers progressively meet more of the costs each month in August, September and October before it ends completely. Basically in terms of it being "free" it stops at 31 July.

Thanks - a very comprehensive answer.

I struggle to understand the actions of clubs like ICT and Arbroath as outlined above.  What are they relying on/hoping for, in committing themselves to players in this way?

It just looks needlessly risky, when future visibility is so murky.

[parsforlife]

2 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

In terms of players? To be honest I don't think it is.

Dundee had three players out of contract. Hearts let a few go this week but have clearly got more than enough players to field a team. Ayr have got at least 11 at the moment though the fact they've extended furlough means it's not entirely clear how many will stay and how many will eventually go. They've deferred a decision effectively. Inverness have announced today they've extended a handful of contracts and that six first team players have left, although three of those were known a while ago. Arbroath extended a pile of contracts last week. Dunfermline still have more than 11 players despite letting half the squad leave last week. Raith have given 6 month extensions to their entire squad I think I read yesterday.

I'm unsure about Morton and Alloa but it does look like most of the division could at least field a team of some standard right now and it's probably why there appears to be a general preference to play than not.

If you take the side Grant posted it involves going deep into our u20s, there’s about 7 established pros in there.  Does the 3? players we here about at queens under contract include your youths?

59 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

 

4m does sound quite promising tbf, though won’t cover costs.

If we are reasonably optimistic and take January with crowds back(and let’s be very optimistic and say that will be at normal levels) I think we could possibly play the first round of fixtures over November/December and possibly some of October, this is based on the assumption that clubs will want to maximise their access to government support. Though I’ve yet to see the details of how stage 2 of furlough will work but it’s suggested part-time work maybe allowed, in which case we can possibly start earlier depending on how things are arranged.

Covid testing for 9 games at about 20 tests per club is about £500k by my guess. Maybe £150k championship clubs, £75k league 1 and 50k league 2 for other costs such as wages. It would get us close enough to usual levels of income for those 3 months.   

IMO that’s still fairly risky unless we get some more certainty that a January start will happen with significant crowds(and importantly giving clubs a basis to sell season tickets).  I’d try and be patient of the next couple of months before we commit to starting the lower leagues on that basis. I don’t see a reason to come to a decision quickly.

[RossBFaeDundee]

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

4m does sound quite promising tbf, though won’t cover costs.

He said "well over £4m".

Edited June 2, 2020 by RossBFaeDundee

[parsforlife]

6 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

He said "well over £4m".

I always take these sort of figures using the quoted number and not guess what they mean by ‘well over’.  IMO if the unstated amount was significant then it would be quoted, your not going to have 10m or even 5m stated as well over 4m.  4.2m, maybe

Edited June 2, 2020 by parsforlife

[foreverarover]

What's not feasible? Sorry can't make head nor tail of your post.

Each club will have to set a budget with the pretense of no fans for say half the season. That means reduced sponsorship through shirts sponsor and more expectedly in way of pitch side sponsors and no fan money every 2 weeks. A club that gets a crowd of 3-4k for sakes will see a drastic reduction in budget if no fans are allowed in. This club are still having to support players on 2 or 3 years contracts based on last year's budget. This will kill of a large part or if not all the reduced budget they have to work to.

[Father Barrys Sign (Top Half)]

8 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

 

I don't think Morton have said anything yet, though I assume that likely means they haven't extended anyone. Alloa too have been completely silent.

To the best of my knowledge Alloa have placed the full squad on furlough and offered every player a contract extension.

No news of anyone signed nor departed so far.

[North Terrace Gazza]

I don’t understand why some of the free to air broadcasters haven’t entered the scene. Take the BBC, they are struggling to make programmes at the moment due to COVID, why not offer a deal on top of the sky deal for additional live games. Even if these games have to be lower league games. Surely that’s a win-win for both sides?

[Passionate]

26 minutes ago, North Terrace Gazza said:

I don’t understand why some of the free to air broadcasters haven’t entered the scene. Take the BBC, they are struggling to make programmes at the moment due to COVID, why not offer a deal on top of the sky deal for additional live games. Even if these games have to be lower league games. Surely that’s a win-win for both sides?

Big problem is they want to attract viewers not scare them off ffs.

[johnnydun]

9 hours ago, foreverarover said:

9 hours ago, johnnydun said:

What's not feasible? Sorry can't make head nor tail of your post.

Each club will have to set a budget with the pretense of no fans for say half the season. That means reduced sponsorship through shirts sponsor and more expectedly in way of pitch side sponsors and no fan money every 2 weeks. A club that gets a crowd of 3-4k for sakes will see a drastic reduction in budget if no fans are allowed in. This club are still having to support players on 2 or 3 years contracts based on last year's budget. This will kill of a large part or if not all the reduced budget they have to work to.

So, what's not feasible?

[Guest Flash]

16 hours ago, parsforlife said:

 

Though I’ve yet to see the details of how stage 2 of furlough will work but it’s suggested part-time work maybe allowed, in which case we can possibly start earlier depending on how things are arranged.

Full details of how part-time work will fit in will be published on 12 June. This is how I think it works, but clubs will need to look at the detailed guidance when it is published, plus I might be wrong about the stuff that has been published.

I think the basic plan is that if an employee works part-time, the employer pays for those hours and claims the grant for the hours that weren’t worked.  Outline is in the grey box at the top of the page in the link. I think that means if footballers were back playing, they would be doing their normal hours for the club, so there would be no furlough support. I guess from July normal hours would include playing some games, so maybe a partial claim could be made if they are training but not playing. Once they are playing, they are doing their full normal hours, so I imagine there will be no furlough grants to clubs at all from that point.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

The tapering of support is shown on this page.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chancellor-extends-self-employment-support-scheme-and-confirms-furlough-next-steps

The amount of support is unchanged until the end of July, although employees can do some work from 1 July (which the employer must pay for).

From 1 August, HMRC will stop paying employer’s NI and pension, but still pay 80% of furloughed wages (subject to the £2,500 cap), employer pays wages for time worked.

From 1 September, HMRC will pay 70% of furloughed wages subject to a cap of £2,187, the employer has to pay 10% of furloughed wages, plus all the wage for time worked.

From 1 October, HMRC will pay 60% of furloughed wages subject to a cap of £1,875, the employer pays 20% of furloughed wages, plus all the wage for time worked.

Eta furlough ends on 31 October.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Flash