Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[The Master]

Just now, weetoonlad said:

What I don't understand is And I Quote

Dundee FC tried to submit a vote . what do you mean by that

Did the email arrive or not !!!!!

You either send an email or you don't
 

It’s possible for an email to be sent but not received. 

[Tannadeechee]

6 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Cards on the table I think the SPFL is lying about when it received the voting slip.

Would be cleared up in 30seconds by Dundee showing the sent email. Or SPFL showing that it was caught at their end etc.

Could easily be both side telling the truth without there being nefarious actions.

[Crawford]

This has turned normally decent posters into slobbering conjecture clowns.

The media don't know what's going on. The club's don't know what is going on. The SPFL don't know what's going on, but YOU do

[Ad Lib]

Just now, The Master said:

It’s possible for an email to be sent but not received. 

Then the Club should be providing evidence of when it was sent (in the interests of transparency).

And the SPFL should be publishing the evidence of when it received every email from Dundee FC, and of every email it sent to Dundee FC, that day.

[weetoonlad]

It’s possible for an email to be sent but not received. 

So strange its the last one with No on it come on how strange . I smell shite

[Tannadeechee]

Just now, Ad Lib said:

Then the Club should be providing evidence of when it was sent (in the interests of transparency).

And the SPFL should be publishing the evidence of when it received every email from Dundee FC, and of every email it sent to Dundee FC, that day.

And what would happen if or should a big gap between times? Reason I ask is that is completely possible. It would show that both are telling the truth.

[Tannadeechee]

1 minute ago, weetoonlad said:

4 minutes ago, The Master said:

It’s possible for an email to be sent but not received. 

So strange its the last one with No on it come on how strange . I smell shite

The last one was the one sent saying please do not take our vote as sent.

[Granny Danger]

2 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Then the Club should be providing evidence of when it was sent (in the interests of transparency).

And the SPFL should be publishing the evidence of when it received every email from Dundee FC, and of every email it sent to Dundee FC, that day.

You’re going down.  Live with it.

[Skyline Drifter]

7 minutes ago, The Master said:

I should have been clearer - if the SPFL had received the vote and published it as 7-3 it wouldn’t have been possible for Dundee to roll back.

By publishing the totals and then (presumably) informing Dundee that they hadn’t sent a vote, it revealed that Dundee had the casting vote. 

Again, agreed. But as I said, Dundee would likely already have known they had a casting vote, certainly in the Championship where Thistle were an inevitable no and Scot Gardiner has already confirmed Inverness were a leading no and first to cast the vote and circulate it. And it was already pretty obvious by Friday afternoon the other two voting groups would pass it. Once Hibs confirmed they were voting for it the Premiership was going to pass.

[jagsfan57]

You understand wrongly then.

Good contribution!

[Ad Lib]

Just now, Tannadeechee said:

And what would happen if or should a big gap between times? Reason I ask is that is completely possible. It would show that both are telling the truth.

It's possible.

It doesn't seem to me to be very likely.

In normal times I'd always assume accident over malice.

But these aren't normal times.

And the documented and reported existence of SPFL figures having directly contacted Nelms between the hours of 3-6pm make me smell shite.

[The DA]

42 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

That suggests that someone might have been voting without authority.

The attachment (PDF?) might have been too big and their email provider might have delayed sending it until things were quieter over the evening.

But that sounds more like something that would have happened 10 years ago.

 

[Ludo*1]

Dundee have been back in touch with the BBC and announced they wanted to release the following statement:

 

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

I don't have proof. I readily admit it is just a suspicion.

They can of course disprove this by simply providing proof of when it was received.

Genuinely not sure how you prove this, not being a massively IT literate geek. In my own work I occasionally receive emails hours and days after they have been sent for some reason. When they come in they are time stamped with the original date of sending at the source end. I've no idea how I would prove when those were physically received if I had to.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[VictorOnopko]

3 minutes ago, Ad Lib said:

Then the Club should be providing evidence of when it was sent (in the interests of transparency).

And the SPFL should be publishing the evidence of when it received every email from Dundee FC, and of every email it sent to Dundee FC, that day.

The ICt guy on Sportsound said Dundee sent their NO email at 16:52 then their email to disregard it at 6pm.  If true, at 5pm - the requested deadline - the votes cast (but somehow not received by the SPFL, now convenient...) were 7-3.  This is unless Dundee have been telling straight-out lies to other clubs about sending it.  Their voting form has been made public, with NO clearly shown. 

You couldn't make the current mess up, even by Scottish football's extremely low standards.

[Guest Flash]

8 minutes ago, The Master said:

Can anyone find anything in the rules or articles regarding monetary loans? Searching for “loan” or “lend” reveals nothing. 

I’ve not checked but it could be that if there is nothing in the Articles or Rules to prevent loans being made then they are ok if approved by the Board.

[Ad Lib]

1 minute ago, Granny Danger said:

You’re going down.  Live with it.

Granny: if we're to go down we're to go down. It makes no difference to me if that's last week or July.

But those deciding that should happen have to own it. Not pass the buck, do back-room deals or make vague promises to induce people to vote for something then not follow-through. They should be honest: they want to relegate us, Stranraer and Hearts on the basis of an incomplete season. Own that.

You seem happy enough for your Club to own that. So should the SPFL as a whole.

[craigkillie]

Just now, VictorOnopko said:

The ICt guy on Sportsound said Dundee sent their NO email at 16:52 then their email to disregard it at 6pm.  If true, at 5pm - the requested deadline - the votes cast (but somehow not received by the SPFL, now convenient...) were 7-3.  This is unless Dundee have been telling straight-out lies to other clubs about sending it.  Their voting form has been made public, with NO clearly shown. 

You couldn't make the current mess up, even by Scottish football's extremely low standards.

He has no way of knowing whether Dundee sent their email or not, only that Dundee claimed to.

[RossBFaeDundee]

My question would be regarding the theory that Dundee's original email was buffered due to a media attachment, why did every other team's emails, presumably also containing media attachments of their signed votes, get through fine?

[jagsfan57]

They could (although I doubt such a vote would get through). But that's not what he said. He said they could distribute the rest of the money anytime without final placings. The SPFL has already distributed all of the money which is not dependent on final placings. In order to distribute the rest of the money they either need to declare the final placings (which is what they tried to do) or agree a rule change with a different model of some sort. Either way it would need a 75% majority by the same three categories (Premiership, Championship and League 1 / 2). They cannot distribute the remainder of the money any other way under the existing rules.

But it is ok to determine who gets promoted or relegated without changing rules ?
Definitely got their priorities right. What a shambles of an organisation