Pull My Strings Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Yenitit said: Should clubs furloughing wages be deducted points? Cant have clubs who overpay players, which they can’t afford, gaining an advantage over clubs footing the wages. Ironic that the 3 league leaders (Celtic, Utd, Cove) are furloughing 1st after vastly outspending the rest of the teams in their leagues. Yeah it sounds morally right to hand out titles,promotion etc to clubs that do this. Ffs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, Yenitit said: No they aren’t, they’re furloughing. Word on the pavey up here is the bank debt is going up and up. Were there rules about administration and liquidation before they started happening? Yes, when the SPFL formed they drew us rules around administration. Not sure about liquidation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, DA Baracus said: Yes, when the SPFL formed they drew us rules around administration. Not sure about liquidation. So not before then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 I wonder if the furloughing in football may get looked at again, certainly with Tottenham furloughing non playing staff but paying their players as normal. I’d argue that furloughing when you don’t need to is unethical, especially for a multi-million pound football team, but for most Scottish teams the finance would dictate you have to.Also, regarding the rugby comparison, I see that Biggar have decided to appeal not being promoted...if that is happening at an amateur level then it’s a potential clustefuck in the SPFL. The clubs were also given several options:1. Null and void, no promotion or relegation2. Standings as they were would stand, despite some teams not having played all games, promotion and relegation would happen.3. Award 2 points to each team (as if it were a draw) for outstanding games, promotion and relegation would stand. 4. Double up any outstanding fixtures based on previous result. For example, if team A had won 28-0 against team B in the first fixture, then team A would be awarded the same result in the reverse fixture. Again, promotion and relegation would stand. There is always going to be losers and winners no matter what is decided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 I also see that Belgium have cancelled their league and play offs, with results as the were standing meaning that Club Brugge are champions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, super_carson said: I wonder if the furloughing in football may get looked at again, certainly with Tottenham furloughing non playing staff but paying their players as normal. I’d argue that furloughing when you don’t need to is unethical, especially for a multi-million pound football team, but for most Scottish teams the finance would dictate you have to. What's that argument then? Out of interest. Adherence with the lockdown is for the greater good of the entire country it's not for the benefit of the individual person or business. If I'm being asked/told to stop operating my business for the good of the country why shouldn't I be supported in bearing my inevitable losses that result simply because my business is successful or high profile. There are very, very few businesses which can just shut up shop for several months and survive, certainly no football clubs I would expect. Edited April 2, 2020 by Pull My Strings 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Yenitit said: So not before then? I don't think so. The SPL and SFL seemed to just do it on a case by case basis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 What's that argument then? Out of interest. Adherence with the lockdown is for the greater good of the entire country it's not for the benefit of the individual person or business. If I'm being asked/told to stop operating my business for the good of the country why shouldn't I be supported in bearing my inevitable losses that result simply because my business is successful or high profile. There are very, very few businesses which can just shut up shop for several months and survive, certainly no football clubs I would expect. I would say it was unethical to still pay some of your staff hundreds of thousands of pounds, while reducing the income of people who are on a fraction of that amount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo army Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 hours ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: I've decided, in my infinite wisdom, the best thing to do would be to void the season and start from scratch. Year Zero. But how best to decide where clubs sit? Like the East of Scotland league did to accommodate the refugees from the juniors we will give our clubs a seeding based on current league and league position and then put them into roughly equal conferences whenever games begin again. Everyone plays home and away and the winners of each conference make up the Premier League, the 2nd place teams make up the league below and so on and so forth with regionalisation coming in whenever it suits. The 16 league winners will play off, home and away, to decide that season's champions. I have, handily, already created the leagues for everyone to enjoy. Reveal hidden contents Celtic Stranraer Cove Rangers Gala Fairydean Huntly Dunbar United Wigtown & Bladnoch Invergordon Kilwinning Rangers Tayport Bathgate Thistle Burghead Thistle Cumbernauld United Forfar Albion Linlithgow Rose Community Muirkirk Juniors Maybole Juniors Rangers Forfar Athletic Edinburgh City Deveronvale Berwick Rangers Upper Annandale Crossgates Primrose Craigroyston Carnoustie Panmure Beith Juniors Montrose Roselea Aberdeen University JFC Blairgowrie Juniors Whitletts Victoria Buchanhaven Hearts Yoker Athletic Johnstone Burgh Motherwell Peterhead Elgin City University of Stirling Strathspey Thistle Linlithgow Rose Lochmaben Arniston Rangers Livingston United Inverness Bunillidh Forres Thistle Newburgh Glentanar J.F.C. Whitehills J.F.C. Vale of Leven Ashfield Aberdeen Clyde Cowdenbeath Wick Academy Gretna 2008 Lochar Thistle Sauchie Juniors Peebles Rovers Banks O'Dee Bridge of Don Thistle Kilbirnie Ladeside Sunnybank Stonehaven Buckie Rovers Kilsyth Rangers Royal Albert Thorniewood United Livingston Dumbarton Queen's Park Cumbernauld Colts Turriff United Jeanfield Swifts Creetown Easthouses Lily MW Thurso Fauldhouse United Kirriemuir Thistle Rosyth Newmachar United JFC Syngenta Bo'ness United Junior East Kilbride Thistle Forth Wanderers Hibernian East Fife Stirling Albion Keith Edinburgh University St Cuthbert Wanderers Blackburn United Ormiston Pollok Luncarty Harthill Royal Dundee East Craigie Blantyre Victoria Coupar Angus Dalry Thistle Wishaw Juniors Annbank United St Johnstone Montrose Annan Athletic Caledonian Braves Clachnacuddin Musselburgh Athletic Whitehill Welfare Hawick Royal Albert United Broughty Athletic Glenafton Athletic Deveronside Darvel Juniors Dundee Violet Neilston Juniors West Calder United Kello Rovers Vale of Clyde Kilmarnock Airdrieonians Stenhousemuir Nairn County Dalbeattie Star Heston Rovers Newtongrange Star Burntisland Shipyard Pumpherston Halkirk Utd Bonar Bridge Kirkintilloch Rob Roy Stoneyburn Cruden Bay Gartcairn Maryhill St. Anthony's St Mirren Falkirk Albion Rovers East Kilbride Lossiemouth Penicuik Athletic Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale Tweedmouth Rangers Culter Dyce Scone Thistle Rutherglen Glencairn Fraserburgh United Dufftown J.F.C. Petershill Girvan Saltcoats Victoria Ross County Raith Rovers Brechin City Forres Mechanics Vale of Leithen Nithsdale Wanderers Tynecastle Oakley United Golspie Armadale Thistle Kennoway Star Hearts Maud Islavale Sauchie Juniors Community St. Roch's Bellshill Athletic Newmains United Hamilton Academical Partick Thistle Brora Rangers Civil Service Strollers Fort William Dundonald Bluebell Leith Athletic Coldstream Auchinleck Talbot Dundee North End Aberdeen East End Benburb Renfrew Lochee Harp Cambuslang Rangers Larkhall Thistle Lugar Boswell Thistle Heart of Midlothian Queen of the South Kelty Hearts Formartine United Bo'ness United Newton Stewart Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts St Andrews United Lochee United Clydebank Rossvale Ellon United Arbroath Victoria Arthurlie Craigmark Burntonians Glasgow Perthshire Ardeer Thistle Dundee United Alloa Athletic Inverurie Loco Works The Spartans Threave Rovers Camelon Juniors Dunipace Dalkeith Thistle Whitburn Juniors Orkney Forfar West End Troon Kirkcaldy & Dysart Spey Valley United Irvine Victoria Carluke Rovers Glasgow Uni Inverness Caledonian Thistle Greenock Morton Bonnyrigg Rose Buckie Thistle Broxburn Athletic Mid Annandale Glenrothes Kinnoull FC Hermes Nairn St. Ninian Lochore Welfare Hall Russell United Longside Stoneywood-Parkvale Ardrossan Winton Rovers Greenock Juniors Drumchapel PYM Dundee Arbroath Fraserburgh BSC Glasgow Abbey Vale Tranent Juniors Heriot Watt University Preston Athletic St. Duthus Thornton Hibs Colony Park JFC Hurlford United New Elgin Lochgelly Albert Lanark United Lesmahagow Juniors Oban Saints Ayr United Dunfermline East Stirlingshire Rothes Hill of Beath Hawthorn Bonnyton Thistle Edinburgh United Haddington Athletic Irvine Meadow XI Dundee Downfield Largs Thistle Banchory St. Ternan Shotts Bon Accord Brechin Victoria Shettleston Port Glasgow Juniors Strathclyde Uni Already looking forward to the Greenock derby and Queen of the South's humiliating defeat against Newton Stewart Aye there are a few powderkeg fixtures there. That Greenock derby has a Besiktas v Galatasaray feel about it. Dyce v Culter will require a huge police presence too. I'm buzzing for our relegation battle with Accies. Are the pies in Brora any good? Great work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, super_carson said: 21 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: What's that argument then? Out of interest. Adherence with the lockdown is for the greater good of the entire country it's not for the benefit of the individual person or business. If I'm being asked/told to stop operating my business for the good of the country why shouldn't I be supported in bearing my inevitable losses that result simply because my business is successful or high profile. There are very, very few businesses which can just shut up shop for several months and survive, certainly no football clubs I would expect. I would say it was unethical to still pay some of your staff hundreds of thousands of pounds, while reducing the income of people who are on a fraction of that amount. Tbf, that's a gut feeling rather than an argument and it's also an entirely different gut feeling than the first one you made. As someone who runs a business and who has had to furlough staff I would say that those who are furloughed are delighted to take up the option (and it is entirely optional). You'll get a minimum 80% of your salary for no work (and 100% if that's possible). Fingers crossed there will still be a business to come back to when this is all over. So far, so "ethical". I don't have staff earning hundreds of thousands a year but if I did I can see that it would be a much more difficult proposition. I could offer them the chance to be furloughed but at the cost of a much greater reduction in their salary. They might prefer just to be made redundant in that scenario and take their chances elsewhere. It's easy to criticise other people for being "unethical" when you don't have to make those sorts of decisions yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super_carson Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Tbf, that's a gut feeling rather than an argument and it's also an entirely different gut feeling than the first one you made. As someone who runs a business and who has had to furlough staff I would say that those who are furloughed are delighted to take up the option (and it is entirely optional). You'll get a minimum 80% of your salary for no work (and 100% if that's possible). Fingers crossed there will still be a business to come back to when this is all over. So far, so "ethical". I don't have staff earning hundreds of thousands a year but if I did I can see that it would be a much more difficult proposition. I could offer them the chance to be furloughed but at the cost of a much greater reduction in their salary. They might prefer just to be made redundant in that scenario and take their chances elsewhere. It's easy to criticise other people for being "unethical" when you don't have to make those sorts of decisions yourself.At the risk of getting into an academic debate about what ethics are, ethics really are just 'gut feelings'.I have sympathy for anyone whose business has been effected by this, it's not their fault at all and I genuinely hope that your business manages to come through this. TMy point was, specifically in the case of Spurs, it seems off to keep paying the footballers their usual wage while reducing the already significantly smaller salaries.of background staff. The staff being reduced may well be OK with this, as you say, but I also know a lot of people who couldn't afford to lose 20% of their wage voluntarily. And of course none of this really applies to Scottish football. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, rb123! said: I wish tbh they would just hurry up and decide what to do because it's obvious no football will be able to be played, certainly with supporters, until August at the earliest. So imo just announce that the season has finished and it's either: 1. Null and Void 2. 1st and 2nd go up and bottom and 2nd bottom go down (personally wouldn't agree with this option) 3. Top 4 from Championship go up with no relegation happening so most people are pleased. Leaves 16 in the Premiership where we play each other twice, then in a final split top 8 play each other once and bottom 8 play each other once, a cup style draw would be used to decide who plays home and away in the split. Could use this opportunity as a trial season to see if it's a success and if it isn't bin it. Not sure how this option would work for further down the leagues cause you'd inevitably have to fill half of league 2 with premiership colt teams probably. Why do they need to hurry up? To suit you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Why do they need to hurry up? To suit you? Me too TBF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, super_carson said: At the risk of getting into an academic debate about what ethics are, ethics really are just 'gut feelings'. I have sympathy for anyone whose business has been effected by this, it's not their fault at all and I genuinely hope that your business manages to come through this. T My point was, specifically in the case of Spurs, it seems off to keep paying the footballers their usual wage while reducing the already significantly smaller salaries.of background staff. The staff being reduced may well be OK with this, as you say, but I also know a lot of people who couldn't afford to lose 20% of their wage voluntarily. And of course none of this really applies to Scottish football. The staff have got to agree to be furloughed though and if they refuse then the club's options are to keep paying them or make them redundant. As I understand it the clubs are in discussion with the PFA to find a solution. No doubt that something will ultimately be agreed which works for both parties but just because you can't fix everything immediately doesn't mean you shouldn't fix what you can as soon as you can. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rb123! Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Why do they need to hurry up? To suit you? No so the prize money can get distributed to the clubs ASAP who desperatly need cash just now with no income from games 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Ton Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, super_carson said: I also see that Belgium have cancelled their league and play offs, with results as the were standing meaning that Club Brugge are champions. Looks like Partick and Hearts are gubbed. Hard luck Falkirk a near thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Ton Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 Another point which may have been covered elsewhere. If you are a BT customer you can get a £10/month refund as there is no current live sport. Expect they will seek to reduce payments to leagues as no product on offer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DA Baracus said: I don't think so. The SPL and SFL seemed to just do it on a case by case basis. So you see my point then 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rb123! said: No so the prize money can get distributed to the clubs ASAP who desperatly need cash just now with no income from games The spfl don’t sit on piles of cash waiting to find out where clubs will finish. And as pointed out sky/bt are hardly going to be keen to hand over money for a product they haven’t received. Edited April 2, 2020 by parsforlife 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 2, 2020 Share Posted April 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, Yenitit said: So you see my point then Not really! I must be missing something obvious here! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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