Coronavirus and the Scottish Championship

[vikingTON]

10 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

None of us on here, nor anyone involved in running Scottish football, can really do anything to help in this situation, besides staying at home as much as possible and following government advice.

Therefore I'm struggling to see how the horrible situation facing people due to coronavirus is particularly relevant here. Discussing the outcomes of football leagues has absolutely no impact on those people who are dying - it's not like we're wasting energy that could otherwise be used saving lives.

Presumably all other businesses that are unable to operate right now are also morally barred from planning their post-lockdown operation. The local Italian restaurant down the street must be worse than Harold Shipman for even thinking about its future while people are dying (sad emoji, double frown emoji).

[BukyOHare]

46 minutes ago, virginton said:

Around 40 million people died during the First World War and yet the Scottish top flight played a 30+ game calendar season in each of those four years. We didn't void the 1968-69 season when around 80,000 people in the UK died as a result of the 'Hong Kong' flu pandemic; nor the 57-58 season when another 33,000 were killed by a similar strain. More recently, an estimated 13,000 people died in the bog standard flu season of 2008-09 which went unremarked by everyone apart from medical experts. So the fact of life that contagious diseases happen and that people die of them is not actually relevant to determining the outcome of a season. It is a valid argument to not hold a football match right now but we are still able to work out a credible conclusion to the league campaign while we're all in lockdown.

We're in 2020. Times have surely changed, even in Greenock. 

How can we begin to work out a credible conclusion? You can talk about how many weeks it'll take to "finish" the season but we don't know how long the lockdown is going to actually be for. Even closed doors games go against the current advice as its not essential. 

Anything post a date in the calendar will then have to impact on next season as we used to know it (if we're even in a position to be up and running by then). 

Its just all weepy pish I suppose.

[BukyOHare]

20 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

None of us on here, nor anyone involved in running Scottish football, can really do anything to help in this situation, besides staying at home as much as possible and following government advice.

Therefore I'm struggling to see how the horrible situation facing people due to coronavirus is particularly relevant here. Discussing the outcomes of football leagues has absolutely no impact on those people who are dying - it's not like we're wasting energy that could otherwise be used saving lives.

Weepy pish.

[BukyOHare]

6 minutes ago, virginton said:

Presumably all other businesses that are unable to operate right now are also morally barred from planning their post-lockdown operation. The local Italian restaurant down the street must be worse than Harold Shipman for even thinking about its future while people are dying (sad emoji, double frown emoji).

Plan away. Fingers crossed its just extremely unlikely to be utilised. 

Post lockdown = piece of string.

[vikingTON]

1 minute ago, BukyOHare said:

We're in 2020. Times have surely changed, even in Greenock. 

What, specifically, has changed in the last eleven years that makes 12,000 additional deaths from a flu pandemic irrelevant? For someone who wants us to please think about your loved ones and weep right now you seem rather blasé about previous instances of grannies etc. being bumped off on a colossal scale. Perhaps because Scottish football's consistent treatment of those human tragedies doesn't fit your ridiculous, illogical and indeed weepy argument.

Quote

How can we begin to work out a credible conclusion? You can talk a,bout how many weeks it'll take to "finish" the season but we don't know how long the lockdown is going to actually be for. Even closed doors games go against the current advice as its not essential. Anything post a date in the calendar will then have to impact on next season as we used to know it (if we're even in a position to be up and running by then). 

I haven't seen anyone suggesting that we set a hard date in stone for resuming the season right now because everyone is already aware of those circumstances. That's still not a valid argument for scrapping the outcome of the three quarters of the season played so far.

The conclusion will be determined by the amount of time available to play any sort of matches, ideally prior to June 30. If there is no time to complete even a reduced card before then either a very truncated set of fixtures would be required at the start of the new season (primarily to determine promotion/relegation) or the authorities will have to call the leagues from what they've got now. Both of those options will refer to the current league outcome though: a midtable placed team like Morton for example would not be contesting any sort of play-off and rightly so.

The idea of voiding the entire campaign because of feelings is utterly ridiculous and thankfully seems to have been already filed in the bin by the relevant authorities. Professional football as a business can and must find a way to settle the outcome of its season based on the results that it has already got and those that it can add before a reasonable deadline for its conclusion.

 

[BukyOHare]

5 minutes ago, virginton said:

What, specifically, has changed in the last eleven years that makes 12,000 additional deaths from a flu pandemic irrelevant? For someone who wants us to please think about your loved ones and weep right now you seem rather blasé about previous instances of grannies etc. being bumped off on a colossal scale. Perhaps because Scottish football's consistent treatment of those human tragedies doesn't fit your ridiculous, illogical and indeed weepy argument.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting that we set a hard date in stone for resuming the season right now because everyone is already aware of those circumstances. That's still not a valid argument for scrapping the outcome of the three quarters of the season played so far.

The conclusion will be determined by the amount of time available to play any sort of matches, ideally prior to June 30. If there is no time to complete even a reduced card before then either a very truncated set of fixtures would be required at the start of the new season (primarily to determine promotion/relegation) or the authorities will have to call the leagues from what they've got now. Both of those options will refer to the current league outcome though: a midtable placed team like Morton for example would not be contesting any sort of play-off and rightly so.

The idea of voiding the entire campaign because of feelings is utterly ridiculous and thankfully seems to have been already filed in the bin by the relevant authorities. Professional football as a business can and must find a way to settle the outcome of its season based on the results that it has already got and those that it can add before a reasonable deadline for its conclusion.

 

Apologies for ignoring the majority of your ramblings and reading only your last paragraph.

Its not voiding the season because of feelings, simply put, its to stop the spread of a virus which is killing people. 

Why aren't they playing football in Italy for example? Edited to add May at the earliest if at all and we're behind them by a few weeks. 

Is Greenock any different? 

Edited March 24, 2020 by BukyOHare

[vikingTON]

How does voiding a season do more to prevent the spread of coronavirus than awarding titles, promotion, relegation etc. based on current standings? Oh that's right it doesn't at all, so your argument is complete and utter nonsense. Weepy, emotive pish is all you've got.

And you don't seem to have been following events in Italy too closely either, given that they've been doing exactly what we're doing here for weeks: debating different proposals to conclude their campaign within the context of an epidemic.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2880191-serie-a-considering-playoffs-potentially-not-awarding-title-amid-coronavirus
 

Quote

 

Lega Pro President Francesco Ghirelli has given an update on how Italian football is planning to continue after attending the FIGC summit Tuesday, per Football Italia:

"We are evaluating the idea that every league will decide autonomously what to do next. The idea is to finish the season by playing all the games, but we have to consider the alternative options too. Among these options are not assigning the Scudetto, assigning it using the current table or organising play-offs."

 

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by vikingTON

[BukyOHare]

13 minutes ago, virginton said:

How does voiding a season do more to prevent the spread of coronavirus than awarding titles, promotion, relegation etc. based on current standings? Oh that's right it doesn't at all, so your argument is complete and utter nonsense. Weepy, emotive pish is all you've got.

And you don't seem to have been following events in Italy too closely either, given that they've been doing exactly what we're doing here for weeks: debating different proposals to conclude their campaign within the context of an epidemic.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2880191-serie-a-considering-playoffs-potentially-not-awarding-title-amid-coronavirus
 

 

Void it or finish it I don't really care. We finish 4th you finish 7th big wow wee. 

IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. 

Come back to me when you're working 10 hours a day on the front line putting yourself at risk, seeing exactly what this virus is doing to people all to help others and then fucking tell me we should be handing out fucking medals and trophies.

Edited to add, the one thing we shouldn't be doing is playing matches, behind closed doors or otherwise. 

Football at the top level being the self centred, me first, I'm alright Jack industry that it is will undoubtedly think otherwise. That mindset will then trickle down to the rest of us. 

Shocking. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by BukyOHare

[craigkillie]

Nobody on this thread has proposed playing football matches right now. The discussion is about what should happen once it's safe to play again.

[The Master]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

None of us on here, nor anyone involved in running Scottish football, can really do anything to help in this situation, besides staying at home as much as possible and following government advice.

Therefore I'm struggling to see how the horrible situation facing people due to coronavirus is particularly relevant here. Discussing the outcomes of football leagues has absolutely no impact on those people who are dying - it's not like we're wasting energy that could otherwise be used saving lives.

A self-isolating granny could have eaten the hard drive space your post took up

[BukyOHare]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Nobody on this thread has proposed playing football matches right now. The discussion is about what should happen once it's safe to play again.

If it's safe to play then play. That could be weeks, probably months away though. 

The discussion for me was whether we should void the season or call promotion and relegation on the table as things stand. 

[Branch Ton]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Around 40 million people died during the First World War and yet the Scottish top flight played a 30+ game calendar season in each of those four years. We didn't void the 1968-69 season when around 80,000 people in the UK died as a result of the 'Hong Kong' flu pandemic; nor the 57-58 season when another 33,000 were killed by a similar strain. More recently, an estimated 13,000 people died in the bog standard flu season of 2008-09 which went unremarked by everyone apart from medical experts. So the fact of life that contagious diseases happen and that people die of them is not actually relevant to determining the outcome of a season. It is a valid argument to not hold a football match right now but we are still able to work out a credible conclusion to the league campaign while we're all in lockdown.

 

 

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Around 40 million people died during the First World War and yet the Scottish top flight played a 30+ game calendar season in each of those four years. We didn't void the 1968-69 season when around 80,000 people in the UK died as a result of the 'Hong Kong' flu pandemic; nor the 57-58 season when another 33,000 were killed by a similar strain. More recently, an estimated 13,000 people died in the bog standard flu season of 2008-09 which went unremarked by everyone apart from medical experts. So the fact of life that contagious diseases happen and that people die of them is not actually relevant to determining the outcome of a season. It is a valid argument to not hold a football match right now but we are still able to work out a credible conclusion to the league campaign while we're all in lockdown.

Where can we find your learned paper on when the lockdown and the contagion will end Doc. And who is this "we" you keep referring to?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Void it or finish it I don't really care. We finish 4th you finish 7th big wow wee. 
IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. 
Come back to me when you're working 10 hours a day on the front line putting yourself at risk, seeing exactly what this virus is doing to people all to help others and then fucking tell me we should be handing out fucking medals and trophies.
Edited to add, the one thing we shouldn't be doing is playing matches, behind closed doors or otherwise. 
Football at the top level being the self centred, me first, I'm alright Jack industry that it is will undoubtedly think otherwise. That mindset will then trickle down to the rest of us. 
Shocking. 

You should add a poppy meme to that self-righteous pish while you're at it.

[vikingTON]

21 minutes ago, BukyOHare said:

Void it or finish it I don't really care. We finish 4th you finish 7th big wow wee. 

IT ISN'T IMPORTANT. 

Finishing 1st and winning promotion to the top flight on the other hand is critical to a club like Dundee United. Staying in the same league for another twelve months because of your pointless 'let's void the games because of my feelings' idea will cost people their livelihoods at football clubs up and down the country.

Professional football clubs are businesses whose models depend on the outcome of a finished season one way or the other. So finding a credible way forward for them is just as important as what happens to the restaurant down the street.

Quote

Come back to me when you're working 10 hours a day on the front line putting yourself at risk, seeing exactly what this virus is doing to people all to help others and then fucking tell me we should be handing out fucking medals and trophies.

Didn't know that you were actually posting this weepy lecture from Lombardy m8, get off your cross for now.

And even in Italy football clubs and authorities are still discussing how to conclude their league campaign because they can compartmentalise a genuine public health catastrophe and the forward planning of their businesses into two entirely separate categories. Nobody is claiming that they demand equal importance but both can actually be addressed at the same time by rational human beings.

Edited March 24, 2020 by vikingTON

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, BukyOHare said:

If it's safe to play then play. That could be weeks, probably months away though. 

The discussion for me was whether we should void the season or call promotion and relegation on the table as things stand. 

The part I'm still having difficulty processing is why the fact that people are dying of coronavirus is relevant here. Neither of those decisions (or a decision to complete the season in a few months) are going to make any difference to what happens to those ill people, but they are going to make a difference to clubs and their employees. Therefore these two things need to be completely separated when making decisions.

[Rudolph Hucker]

2 hours ago, Branch Ton said:

Where can we find your learned paper on when the lockdown and the contagion will end Doc. 

Stuck on a nail in a manky ootside privy somewhere would be the only appropriate answer.

[Branch Ton]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

The idea of voiding the entire campaign because of feelings is utterly ridiculous and thankfully seems to have been already filed in the bin by the relevant authorities..

 

It's quite understandable that a sociopath would struggle with the concept of feelings.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

41 minutes ago, Branch Ton said:

It's quite understandable that a sociopath would struggle with the concept of feelings.

He's either a sociopath or a psychopath. IMO.

[Sugar_Army]

4 hours ago, Thumper said:

Poland's in full lockdown, so I dare say your hotel would have been shut anyway.

Good luck getting a penny off Ryanair of course.

Girlfriend is Polish so I am aware of the situation there and you are correct, getting there and staying there at present is impossible and I do not see that changing anytime soon.

 I booked our accommodation through Airbnb  and the terms say it will give a full cancellation refund right up until 11th May but not convinced it will be honoured.

As for Ryanair, that should be fun.  They are still selling flights for the dates we are supposed to have been going so no cancellation yet so will be interesting to see what cunning ploy they come up with to keep our cash. 

 In the bigger scheme of things it is not a big amount of money, a lot of people are in desperate situations right now and my heart goes out to them.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I said previously, and I still stand by this - until we can assure the current financial stability of clubs during this period we will be unable to have decision.

 

What's the point of of making a decision on the matches if we don't know if some teams are going to survive to play the remaining matches or play next season?