Guest Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Just to add some fact to the debate and this particular point, there was never a definition of who would or wouldn't qualify for the First Division from the Conferences as at that point (1st February), they clearly didn't know how many clubs were joining and therefore didn't know how big the First Division would be ie 12, 14 or 16 clubs. 8th place was used as an example of what might happen if 6 new clubs joined the EoS.Cmon burnie, you are better than that. It was widely anticipated it was going to be a 16 team first division mirroring the Premier league. Top 8 is what most were going to be aiming for if they were still in the conferences next year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the tin man Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 Given what studgeon said today wid it feasible for the eos to run quicker than the spfl if it made there games all ticket with no patg. Cap the crowd to whatever the gathering number is up to. by the time new season starts If its up to say 300 not many clubs be hampered by this in the short term other than your top lowland n eos teams 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, G4Mac said: 10 hours ago, Burnieman said: Just to add some fact to the debate and this particular point, there was never a definition of who would or wouldn't qualify for the First Division from the Conferences as at that point (1st February), they clearly didn't know how many clubs were joining and therefore didn't know how big the First Division would be ie 12, 14 or 16 clubs. 8th place was used as an example of what might happen if 6 new clubs joined the EoS. Cmon burnie, you are better than that. It was widely anticipated it was going to be a 16 team first division mirroring the Premier league. Top 8 is what most were going to be aiming for if they were still in the conferences next year. What do you mean? I was merely clarifying a misconception that somehow we had all agreed on a specific structure inc finishing positions for next season (in the event the vote was for 2021-22, which it turned out to be) despite not knowing how many new teams would join. We had no idea at that point and the First could conceivably have been 12 or 14 clubs only, so no "top 8" finish, It could have been top 5 or top 6. So Stoosh is wrong in that respect. That's fact, go and read the paperwork for the vote. Edited April 21, 2020 by Burnieman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 So you did not believe that the first division was most likely going to be a 16 team league and that clubs in each conference would have to be in the top 8 to make it into the first division the following season? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 So you did not believe that the first division was most likely going to be a 16 team league and that clubs in each conference would have to be in the top 8 to make it into the first division the following season?It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t believe, what matters is at the point of the vote no one knew how many teams would be competing in the conferences next season (arguably we still don’t as the EGM is yet to be held to accept or reject each applicant) and therefore there was no certainty over what finishing position would or wouldn’t ensure First Division football the season after next. No club will have based, or certainly shouldn’t have, their future planning on a top eight finish guaranteeing First Division football in season 21/22 no matter how many times you try and assert otherwise to validate your argument. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 It doesn’t matter what he did or didn’t believe, what matters is at the point of the vote no one knew how many teams would be competing in the conferences next season (arguably we still don’t as the EGM is yet to be held to accept or reject each applicant) and therefore there was no certainty over what finishing position would or wouldn’t ensure First Division football the season after next. No club will have based, or certainly shouldn’t have, their future planning on a top eight finish guaranteeing First Division football in season 21/22 no matter how many times you try and assert otherwise to validate your argument.Sorry, I was asking Burnieman a question in a public fashion regards previous conversations we have had about the conference set up and first division, which should probably been asked privately. That is my mistake.I am not trying to validate an argument, at least I don't think I am, what I am trying to get over is that if we promote at this stage without relegation (fair enough if that's whats voted for), given the potential impact on clubs accessing the first division next year, it would be prudent to recast the vote. The vote was quite rightly cast in relation to a normal seasons outcome, we don't have that now and clubs might wish to change their vote.Would it not be best to recast and get clubs current position given the fundamental change to the landscape? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Would it not be best to recast and get clubs current position given the fundamental change to the landscape?On the outcome of Friday’s vote and should it support the board recommendation as I think it should and will then yes, I would be in favour of then recasting the Premier/First/Second Division vote for next season (whenever that might be). Personally, I wouldn’t wish to conflate both and confuse matters and it is important to be clear on what is and isn’t guaranteed by the already cast Premier/First/Second Division vote. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 On the outcome of Friday’s vote and should it support the board recommendation as I think it should and will then yes, I would be in favour of then recasting the Premier/First/Second Division vote for next season (whenever that might be). Personally, I wouldn’t wish to conflate both and confuse matters and it is important to be clear on what is and isn’t guaranteed by the already cast Premier/First/Second Division vote.It was not my intention to do so.I just feel that the landscape has changed so much from when the vote was cast that we should have another vote after teams are promoted, given the landscape will then have changed even further, for everyone.I was trying to get over that we were all, myself included, critical of another associations refusal to recast votes and put the decision back to its membership, when their own landscape had changed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 On the outcome of Friday’s vote and should it support the board recommendation as I think it should and will then yes, I would be in favour of then recasting the Premier/First/Second Division vote for next season (whenever that might be). Personally, I wouldn’t wish to conflate both and confuse matters and it is important to be clear on what is and isn’t guaranteed by the already cast Premier/First/Second Division vote.You might find a number of clubs cast their vote on Friday with a yes to the second question but only on the condition that Premier, First & Second is the outcome.I can't see any club who would like to reopen that debate voting yes in nothing but the hope it might be on the table later when they could support it actually being on the table as a condition of their vote on finishing the season. I would think all the club's who want that discussion will make it a condition of their yes vote for the second question.That's generally how these things work in any other walk of life.It at least opens the debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 You might find a number of clubs cast their vote on Friday with a yes to the second question but only on the condition that Premier, First & Second is the outcome.I can't see any club who would like to reopen that debate voting yes in nothing but the hope it might be on the table later when they could support it actually being on the table as a condition of their vote on finishing the season. I would think all the club's who want that discussion will make it a condition of their yes vote for the second question.That's generally how these things work in any other walk of life.It at least opens the debate.As the vote required is a yes/no answer to two simple questions then I very much doubt many, if any, clubs will caveat their answer in the was you suggest/seem to wish. Apart, of course, from Dunipace if your own and G4Mac’s strong opinions on the matter are in any way reflective of those governing the club.It would be like voting in a general election and asking that a vote for the Tories is only counted if they agree to then have another vote on Brexit. It won’t happen.I imagine what would have to happen is for Friday’s vote to be concluded then a club, say for example Dunipace, canvass support for a further vote to bring league reconstruction forward by a season and then petition the board for this vote to take place. That’s generally how things work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 As the vote required is a yes/no answer to two simple questions then I very much doubt many, if any, clubs will caveat their answer in the was you suggest/seem to wish. Apart, of course, from Dunipace if your own and G4Mac’s strong opinions on the matter are in any way reflective of those governing the club.It would be like voting in a general election and asking that a vote for the Tories is only counted if they agree to then have another vote on Brexit. It won’t happen.I imagine what would have to happen is for Friday’s vote to be concluded then a club, say for example Dunipace, canvass support for a further vote to bring league reconstruction forward by a season and then petition the board for this vote to take place. That’s generally how things work.I don't vote for our club I'm afraid. My opinion has been given on the subject, but the vote itself is very much the decision of the committee who I'm sure will do what they think is right.I serve at their pleasure. Same goes for G4Mac.I only mention it as I know other clubs have been in touch to discuss the subject with them, so it has been brought to our attention.Although G4Mac and I share our opinions on here, neither of us are decision makers in club matters, only football. We give our opinions to the club of course, that's our jobs, but you may have the wrong impression that what you hear from us here is anything other than our honest opinion, right or wrong. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black & Red Socks Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 We give our opinions to the club of course, that's our jobs, but you may have the wrong impression that what you hear from us here is anything other than our honest opinion, right or wrong. Entirely understood, which is why I said “if your own and G4Mac’s strong opinions on the matter are in any way reflective of those governing the club”.For what it’s worth, I think petitioning the board for a second vote on the structure of season 20/21 once Friday’s vote on the current board recommendation is concluded is a worthwhile course of action should any club be able to mobilise enough support for such a vote to occur. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Entirely understood, which is why I said “if your own and G4Mac’s strong opinions on the matter are in any way reflective of those governing the club”.For what it’s worth, I think petitioning the board for a second vote on the structure of season 20/21 once Friday’s vote on the current board recommendation is concluded is a worthwhile course of action should any club be able to mobilise enough support for this vote to occur.We'll see.I'll leave that to others at the club to decide/be involved in.Other than checking in on here now and again I'm surprisingly content not having to spend 40+ hours a week in football at the minute, especially as I keep getting told the last 12 months of that effort being wiped out when in the best position in 30 years hasn't been a disadvantage. [emoji1787] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Entirely understood, which is why I said “if your own and G4Mac’s strong opinions on the matter are in any way reflective of those governing the club”.For what it’s worth, I think petitioning the board for a second vote on the structure of season 20/21 once Friday’s vote on the current board recommendation is concluded is a worthwhile course of action should any club be able to mobilise enough support for such a vote to occur. Opinions are like......well actually I'll leave that there I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz5 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Opinions are like......well actually I'll leave that there I think.You calling me an opinion. [emoji1787][emoji1787]Remember I know where you live. [emoji85] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I'd like to think after the EGM we can just get on for planning for next season without going round in circles again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 If the vote is successful (which it probably will) to promote, clubs should be given a chance to vote again on conferences, given the change in landscape of promoting without relegating. It would be handy to vote knowing what the full implications are for next year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 16 minutes ago, G4Mac said: If the vote is successful (which it probably will) to promote, clubs should be given a chance to vote again on conferences, given the change in landscape of promoting without relegating. It would be handy to vote knowing what the full implications are for next year. Think both LTHV, Tynecastle and potentially inverkeithing would like to know if they are promoted or not rather than yes you're promoted now your not your in the 1st? How can those teams plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Swifty said: Think both LTHV, Tynecastle and potentially inverkeithing would like to know if they are promoted or not rather than yes you're promoted now your not your in the 1st? How can those teams plan. I meant after the vote to promote. If the vote to promote this season carries, which is expected to happen, then the vote for conferences or first division, and the assocuated timescales for the change, should be recast, in order for the existing membership clubs to determine how the leagues will look after the lock down ends. This would take into account extra relegation next year to get the Premier back at its original numbers and allow clubs to make an informed decision about the set up after the unexpected changes brought on by covid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marten Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 40 minutes ago, G4Mac said: If the vote is successful (which it probably will) to promote, clubs should be given a chance to vote again on conferences, given the change in landscape of promoting without relegating. It would be handy to vote knowing what the full implications are for next year. I can't see the vote on conferences being reversed. The new entrants were promised tier 6 and it would suddenly relegate a number of First Division clubs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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