Season over

[Dev]

15 hours ago, GordonS said:

I think there could be a case for that higher up the leagues, at full-time level where TV money is important. It's surely only a matter of time before Sky, BT Sport and Premier Sport start asking for their money back, as they'll be bleeding subscribers by the million. But at non-league level, I can't see how games behind closed doors would be worth the effort, cost and risk.

Maybe those of us who can afford it should all just send our clubs the usual admission fee for each home fixture that goes unplayed. 

Presumably subscribers won't be able to get their money back from the companies such as you mention? The companies could be on a winner if that's correct so wouldn't try going after the leagues for failure to provide matches - unless there is insurance in place? Insurers to pick up the tab?

[Dev]

Did some PPG Division Tables for the EoS:

2019-2020 Premier Division		Home	Away	Total H & A
		PPG	PPG		PPG
1	Bo'ness United	2.166	2.333		4.499
2	Broxburn Athletic	2.000	2.000		4.000
3	Hill of Beath Hawthorn	2.400	1.375		3.775
5	Camelon Juniors	2.222	1.272		3.494
4	Tranent Juniors	1.777	1.636		3.413
9	Jeanfield Swifts	2.125	1.125		3.250
6	Dundonald Bluebell	1.625	1.400		3.025
7	Penicuik Athletic	1.500	1.500		3.000
10	Linlithgow Rose	1.857	1.100		2.957
8	Musselburgh Athletic	2.000	0.636		2.636
12	Crossgates Primrose	1.700	0.545		2.245
11	Dunbar United	1.363	0.800		2.163
13	Sauchie Juniors	1.416	0.600		2.016
15	Whitehill Welfare	1.000	0.818		1.818
14	Blackburn United	1.000	0.777		1.777
16	Newtongrange Star	0.666	0.700		1.366

 

Combined 1st Div Conferences		Home	Away	Total H & A
		PPG	PPG		PPG
B	Tynecastle	2.857	2.777		5.634
B	Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts	2.250	2.250		4.500
A	Kinnoull FC	2.666	1.75		4.416
A	Lothian THV	2.571	1.8		4.371
A	Leith Athletic	2.266	1.9		4.166
A	Dunipace	2.230	1.73		3.957
B	Glenrothes	2.000	1.909		3.909
B	Edinburgh United	1.600	1.900		3.500
A	Heriot Watt University	1.583	1.85		3.429
A	Haddington Athletic	1.857	1.5		3.357
B	Preston Athletic	1.571	1.642		3.213
A	Oakley United	1.181	2.00		3.181
A	St Andrews United	1.857	1.13		2.982
A	Burntisland Shipyard	1.777	1.181		2.958
B	Coldstream	1.330	1.461		2.791
B	Dalkeith Thistle	1.250	1.400		2.650
B	Stirling University (EOSFL)	1.600	0.466		2.066
B	Arniston Rangers	0.818	0.545		1.363
A	Ormiston	0.625	0.73		1.352
B	Easthouses Lily MW	0.600	0.750		1.350
B	Tweedmouth Rangers	0.700	0.642		1.342
B	Hawick Royal Albert United	0.916	0.307		1.223
A	Peebles Rovers	0.500	0.33		0.833
A	Craigroyston	0.071	0.18		0.252

[gaz5]

While I see what you're trying to do, PPG at this level is a non starter. The fixtures are too imbalanced.

East example: Kinnoull have the highest PPG in CA, but they've not played Leith at all and still have Lothian and Dunipace to play.

Leith, Lothian and Dunipace have all played each other twice and have all taken points from each other as a result.

Kinnoull benefit from a higher PPG having only played 33% of their games against their rivals at the top, where those 3 have played 100% of their games against each other.

There's no fair way to decide anything in current standings.

We either:

1. Finish the season once we can get started again

2. Void the season.

My preference, though there are issues with it, is 1.

[GordonS]

8 hours ago, Dev said:

Presumably subscribers won't be able to get their money back from the companies such as you mention? The companies could be on a winner if that's correct so wouldn't try going after the leagues for failure to provide matches - unless there is insurance in place? Insurers to pick up the tab?

Apparently folk are cancelling subscriptions in their droves, generally with 1 month notice. This is all going to last longer than that so the TV companies are going to want matches to show from as soon as they can, for as long as they can. 

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, Dev said:

Did some PPG Division Tables for the EoS:

2019-2020 Premier Division		Home	Away	Total H & A
		PPG	PPG		PPG
1	Bo'ness United	2.166	2.333		4.499
2	Broxburn Athletic	2.000	2.000		4.000
3	Hill of Beath Hawthorn	2.400	1.375		3.775
5	Camelon Juniors	2.222	1.272		3.494
4	Tranent Juniors	1.777	1.636		3.413
9	Jeanfield Swifts	2.125	1.125		3.250
6	Dundonald Bluebell	1.625	1.400		3.025
7	Penicuik Athletic	1.500	1.500		3.000
10	Linlithgow Rose	1.857	1.100		2.957
8	Musselburgh Athletic	2.000	0.636		2.636
12	Crossgates Primrose	1.700	0.545		2.245
11	Dunbar United	1.363	0.800		2.163
13	Sauchie Juniors	1.416	0.600		2.016
15	Whitehill Welfare	1.000	0.818		1.818
14	Blackburn United	1.000	0.777		1.777
16	Newtongrange Star	0.666	0.700		1.366

 

Combined 1st Div Conferences		Home	Away	Total H & A
		PPG	PPG		PPG
B	Tynecastle	2.857	2.777		5.634
B	Inverkeithing Hillfield Swifts	2.250	2.250		4.500
A	Kinnoull FC	2.666	1.75		4.416
A	Lothian THV	2.571	1.8		4.371
A	Leith Athletic	2.266	1.9		4.166
A	Dunipace	2.230	1.73		3.957
B	Glenrothes	2.000	1.909		3.909
B	Edinburgh United	1.600	1.900		3.500
A	Heriot Watt University	1.583	1.85		3.429
A	Haddington Athletic	1.857	1.5		3.357
B	Preston Athletic	1.571	1.642		3.213
A	Oakley United	1.181	2.00		3.181
A	St Andrews United	1.857	1.13		2.982
A	Burntisland Shipyard	1.777	1.181		2.958
B	Coldstream	1.330	1.461		2.791
B	Dalkeith Thistle	1.250	1.400		2.650
B	Stirling University (EOSFL)	1.600	0.466		2.066
B	Arniston Rangers	0.818	0.545		1.363
A	Ormiston	0.625	0.73		1.352
B	Easthouses Lily MW	0.600	0.750		1.350
B	Tweedmouth Rangers	0.700	0.642		1.342
B	Hawick Royal Albert United	0.916	0.307		1.223
A	Peebles Rovers	0.500	0.33		0.833
A	Craigroyston	0.071	0.18		0.252

You can't add averages together unless they have the same denominator. For example:

Club A plays 10 home games and wins them all, and one away game and loses it, they'd get a home PPG of 3 and an away PPG of 0, giving a total of 3.

Club B plays 6 games at home winning 4 and losing 2, and 6 games away winning 3 and losing 3, they have a home PPG of 2 and 1.5, giving a total of 3.5 - higher than Club A's.

But Club A's actual PPG is 2.727, while Club B's is 1.75.

[Guest]

You can't add averages together unless they have the same denominator. For example:
Club A plays 10 home games and wins them all, and one away game and loses it, they'd get a home PPG of 3 and an away PPG of 0, giving a total of 3.
Club B plays 6 games at home winning 4 and losing 2, and 6 games away winning 3 and losing 3, they have a home PPG of 2 and 1.5, giving a total of 3.5 - higher than Club A's.
But Club A's actual PPG is 2.727, while Club B's is 1.75.

There isnt really a fair way of doing it at this stage. I get the feeling we wont be back for August now so we either a) scrap the season completely and start again when we can, from scratch or b) start from this point when we resume and finish the season when we return, potentially scrapping next season as a result.

[Buckrogers]

Gaz you’re team are pish !!! No wonder you want the season over 

[gaz5]

Gaz you’re team are pish !!! No wonder you want the season over 

Takes a special kind of person to interpret multiple posts saying my preference would be to finish the season as "wanting the season over."

We're in a cup semi final, a cup quarter final, the last 16 of another and still in the hunt for promotion on the league.

Why on earth would anyone think we want the season over. [emoji1787][emoji1787]

Who's your team?

[Buckrogers]

3 minutes ago, gaz5 said:

Takes a special kind of person to interpret multiple posts saying my preference would be to finish the season as "wanting the season over."

We're in a cup semi final, a cup quarter final, the last 16 of another and still in the hunt for promotion on the league.

Why on earth would anyone think we want the season over.

Who's your team?
 

Don’t have a team but loyalties used to lie with Lothian. 
sorry I overreacted !!! 

[colinmc]

Surely the season can be played out when this madness is over !! We only have about 8 league games left and with meggetland having floodlights, games can be played midweek also. Be a shame to halt a great season everyone at Tynecastle have had so far. 

[gaz5]

Don’t have a team but loyalties used to lie with Lothian. 
sorry I overreacted !!! 

They're a good side and in the driving seat to win the conference if we hopefully get started again.

When you look at the games all 4 sides have left then include Oakley and BurntIsland (who also have a lot of games in hand) it would certainly be an exciting run in.

Lothian, Kinnoull and Leith have 3 games against each other to play, with Oakley still having nearly everyone to play as well, BurntIsland everyone except Dunipace, including Lothian twice and Kinnoull, who they are one of the few teams to beat. Everyone in the top 8 has a mix of games against each other and anyone in that group can beat anyone else on any given day.

Hopefully we get to see it as the top two in the conference will certainly have earned it, whoever that ended up being.

[Guest]

Gaz you’re team are pish !!! No wonder you want the season over 

That escalated quickly [emoji85]

[gaz5]

Surely the season can be played out when this madness is over !! We only have about 8 league games left and with meggetland having floodlights, games can be played midweek also. Be a shame to halt a great season everyone at Tynecastle have had so far. 

Fingers crossed.

Tynecastle would arguably be the biggest loser's if we didn't manage to see it out, as of the sides chasing promotion across the non leagues they are really the only ones where we already know it's guaranteed.

[lithgierose]

Should and probably will just scratch this season. Who's to say there will be a next season? 

[lithgierose]

What happened to season 1939.did we tell Adolf to hang on the seasons no finished yet

[colinmc]

25 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

What happened to season 1939.did we tell Adolf to hang on the seasons no finished yet

this is a virus not a war 

[lithgierose]

11 minutes ago, colinmc said:

this is a virus not a war 

Aye but when does the rationing begin for a virus. Prof?  

[GordonS]

52 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

What happened to season 1939.did we tell Adolf to hang on the seasons no finished yet

They were only 5 games into a 38 game league, so it's not really the same. And they played regional leagues instead.

You're right about next season, who knows when we'll be able to get started again, or whether we'll get a recurrence of Covid-19 in the autumn. 

[Dev]

5 hours ago, gaz5 said:

While I see what you're trying to do, PPG at this level is a non starter. The fixtures are too imbalanced.

East example: Kinnoull have the highest PPG in CA, but they've not played Leith at all and still have Lothian and Dunipace to play.

Leith, Lothian and Dunipace have all played each other twice and have all taken points from each other as a result.

Kinnoull benefit from a higher PPG having only played 33% of their games against their rivals at the top, where those 3 have played 100% of their games against each other.

There's no fair way to decide anything in current standings.

We either:

1. Finish the season once we can get started again

2. Void the season.

My preference, though there are issues with it, is 1.

I agree with your options 1 and 2. They're the most likely outcomes.

Just thought that it would interest some posters here to browse the ppgs.

[Cameron Wilson]

Least worst option I think is to finish this season when possible, and cancel cups if necessary. It's a tough call as most clubs are 2/3 of the way through their season, it feels like we are too far gone to cancel it, yet there's too many games left for it to be an easy decision.

More radical suggestion: arrange the fixtures in such a way so that promotion and relegation is decided as quickly as possible. Then either cancel the outstanding games, or play them when possible over the next year for the sake of completeness. No idea if this is really practical or not, just throwing it out there.