Season over

[Passthebaw]

1 hour ago, Swifty said:

Surprised they called all scottish football off when the FA allowed their non league games to go ahead.

Agreed! Some clubs could have made a right shilling or 2 today with increased numbers through the door! Everywhere I went today, normality was the order of the day. 

[Deanburn Dave]

Gordon, constitutionally you're correct but what the SFA do with the upper tiers must surely be at the very least "persuasive" to the leagues below. For example if the SFA scrapped this season there would be no possible relegation for say Brechin from tier 4 and no possible promotion for say Kelty or Bonnyrigg......and in that case would it be fair for a tier 5 Lowland League side to be relegated to allow a tier 6 side to get promoted. It's all unclear just now how things will work out. Just have to wait and see what happens.

The SFA won't tell the EoS how to finish its season. 
IMO this is a tricky one. It's like when a match is abandoned at 75 minutes. Nobody minds a replay if it was level, but if one side is well ahead it can be harsh. Are Bo'ness so far ahead that they should be declared champions, or is that unfair on chasers like HoB? Shouldn't we do what we do when a match is abandoned, and write it off?

[Truthteller]

42 minutes ago, Casey Jones said:

Daft! How can every team will all their matches? 

Read it again, no one has said every team will win all their matches, fairest way would be to award every team 3 points for each game that they have left.

let us know your preference or a fairer way

Edited March 14, 2020 by Truthteller

[Casey Jones]

5 minutes ago, Truthteller said:

Read it again, no one has said every team will win all their matches, fairest way would be to award every team 3 points for each game that they have left.

let us know your preference or a fairer way

Still don’t see it that way. If you take the Premier league , that would be 3rd and 4th bottom relegated, but 2nd bottom staying up and 3rd top just missing out winning league by 1 point!

Just not sure that is how either end of the league would finish! I don’t have a thought how to resolve an unfinished league, other than to  hope the season manages to start again and play to a conclusion - though I much doubt that will happen.

 

[lithgierose]

Iirc it's not automatic promotion for eosfl teams. Or is it? 

[Peters Wyngarde]

There is a potential 4 month lockdown coming for anyone over 70, start worrying about next season rather than this one. Its done.

[GordonS]

37 minutes ago, Deanburn Dave said:

Gordon, constitutionally you're correct but what the SFA do with the upper tiers must surely be at the very least "persuasive" to the leagues below. For example if the SFA scrapped this season there would be no possible relegation for say Brechin from tier 4 and no possible promotion for say Kelty or Bonnyrigg......and in that case would it be fair for a tier 5 Lowland League side to be relegated to allow a tier 6 side to get promoted. It's all unclear just now how things will work out. Just have to wait and see what happens.

The SFA won't decide for the top divisions either, it'll surely be the SPFL. I think they'll be under a lot of pressure to recognise that three of their four league leaders have huge points margins over the chasing packs, and end the season with the current positions. That'll be brutal for those getting relegated, and obviously there won't be time for play-offs either. 

Whether that's appropriate for the EoS is a matter of opinion.

10 minutes ago, lithgierose said:

Iirc it's not automatic promotion for eosfl teams. Or is it? 

If the SoS has a licensed champion then there will need to be a play-off. Threave are currently top on 53 points after 20 games and do have a licence; however, Stranraer Reserves are second on 43 points after 16 games, so have a higher points-per-game average. They're not eligible for promotion. 

A few questions on promotion - will the LL relegate anyone? Will they accept a promoted club? Will the SoS declare the season void, with no champion, or will they pick a champion? Nobody can guess for now.

[FairWeatherFan]

10 hours ago, GordonS said:

A few questions on promotion - will the LL relegate anyone? Will they accept a promoted club? Will the SoS declare the season void, with no champion, or will they pick a champion? Nobody can guess for now.

Don't know the inner workings of it, but the SoSFL did not crown a champion in 2000-01 due to the foot & mouth outbreak of 2001 which had its first detection in the middle of February.

 

[Burnie_man]

13 hours ago, Fife Journeyman said:

Kinnoull can play 2 games a week through june and july in light nights. 8 weeks.

New season can start in September and still finish in time next season.
You cant null and void all leagues .
All leagues wether semi pro or top level can all be completed in 2 months max.

Remember not long ago when everyone was junior 3 games a week was normal for successful teams.

Kinnoul wont be playing in June, none of us will.

Trying to finish a season in a month or two is just daft, and also materially effects next season. Rip it up and start again.

[TheGeneral10]

12 hours ago, Truthteller said:

Read it again, no one has said every team will win all their matches, fairest way would be to award every team 3 points for each game that they have left.

let us know your preference or a fairer way

How about taking all points per game ratio as it stands now and applying that to the amount of fixtures left? So if you have a points per game of 1pt and you have 10 fixtures left then you get 10pts added and that’s your final total. If 1.5pt ratio and 10 fixtures then you get 15pts added etc etc. 
This means that form over every game played SO FAR defines your final position. Not ideal but certainly seems fair? 

[Fife Journeyman]

Kinnoul wont be playing in June, none of us will.
Trying to finish a season in a month or two is just daft, and also materially effects next season. Rip it up and start again.

Im sure if your club were sitting mid table your views would be different.

Hows it daft? The current season at all levels can be completed in 2 months easily when they decide to resume.

[gaz5]

How about taking all points per game ratio as it stands now and applying that to the amount of fixtures left? So if you have a points per game of 1pt and you have 10 fixtures left then you get 10pts added and that’s your final total. If 1.5pt ratio and 10 fixtures then you get 15pts added etc etc. 
This means that form over every game played SO FAR defines your final position. Not ideal but certainly seems fair? 

It's not fair in the slightest, because not everyone has played equal fixtures.

Firstly, it's easier to have a higher PPG the less games you've played.

Secondly, the way the fixtures work at our level means there's an imbalance in who will has to play who.

For an easy example, in Conference A Leith, Lothian and Dunipace have all played each other twice already. Kinnoull, on a higher PPG have a Leith still to play twice, Lothian at home and Dunipace away. Dunipace still have to play the bottom two teams once, while Leith have played both twice. Dunipace have still to play Tynecastle and Inverkeithing from conference B, where Leith and Lothian have both played them.

No one has played "equal" fixtures si there's no fair way to "make up" finishing positions based on current standings.

There are unfortunately only two options.

1. Start again and play out the season whenever we can (which has huge issues in terms of player contracts, people already signing pre co ntracts fur next year etc)

2. The season is void and we start again for next season.

Unfortunately, given we were still in the hunt on several fronts, the most likely outcome is 2. [emoji853]

[Burnie_man]

35 minutes ago, Fife Journeyman said:

Im sure if your club were sitting mid table your views would be different.

Hows it daft? The current season at all levels can be completed in 2 months easily when they decide to resume.

I was waiting for that.  I'm more than happy to see football return and for the season to be completed (I'm already bored of no football), but it's just not going to happen, and it shouldn't be at the expense of affecting next season.

Looking at projections, we'll be lucky to be in a position to start kicking a ball before August, then you'd need to add in a period of "pre-season" again as you can't just expect players (who may not have been training much either) to start without it. 

Then there is the issue of player contracts which expire long before then.

Season is done. Void it and start again.

 

[albynpark]

I don't know if this has been suggested but a simple solution, scrap season 2020/21.  We go on a long break until the virus is gone. Then continue the fixtures where we left off. I think we'll start around Septemberish after a warm-up spell to get match fitness. We will have plenty of time to get the fixtures done. And no midweek games and maybe an extra league format cup if we need extra games. We could also think about alligning into summer football, but that's too much forward thinking for one day

The problem is financial. Hopefully some kind of tax breaks or government funds to help cover the burden.

[Burnie_man]

Just now, albynpark said:

I don't know if this has been suggested but a simple solution, scrap season 2020/21.  We go on a long break until the virus is gone. Then continue the fixtures where we left off. I think we'll start around Septemberish after a warm-up spell to get match fitness. We will have plenty of time to get the fixtures done. And no midweek games and maybe an extra league format cup if we need extra games. We could also think about alligning into summer football, but that's too much forward thinking for one day

The problem is financial. Hopefully some kind of tax breaks or government funds to help cover the burden.

Scrap NEXT season?

[albynpark]

4 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Scrap NEXT season?

Well not scrapping it but postponing the start off next season. All depends on when clubs are allowed to play again and after a warm-up period. It could be next year before we can start again. It's just an option to consider when we have more answers in place. I'd rather that than 5 games a week

[Burnie_man]

4 minutes ago, albynpark said:

Well not scrapping it but postponing the start off next season. All depends on when clubs are allowed to play again and after a warm-up period. It could be next year before we can start again. It's just an option to consider when we have more answers in place. I'd rather that than 5 games a week

What about players who have already signed for someone else next season?  What about players who are out of contract by then and won't re-sign? What about new players you have signed for next season from other clubs?  What about the new applicant clubs who expect to be playing EoS next season? Clubs could be faced with completely different squads by the time we re-start, and it will take about 3 months to finish the season.

If you void the season, you start afresh come August (or whenever) without creating problems that don't need created.

It will be painful for those clubs on the verge of promotion or winning something, but I really can't see a workable alternative that doesn't disrupt another season.

[8MileBU]

What about players who have already signed for someone else next season?  What about players who are out of contract by then and won't re-sign? What about new players you have signed for next season from other clubs?  What about the new applicant clubs who expect to be playing EoS next season? Clubs could be faced with completely different squads by the time we re-start, and it will take about 3 months to finish the season. If you void the season, you start afresh come August (or whenever) without creating problems that don't need created. It will be painful for those clubs on the verge of promotion or winning something, but I really can't see a workable alternative that doesn't disrupt another season.

 

 

 Whilst I agree the season being voided is the likely outcome, the tone of your last couple of posts on the matter are pretty bleak, full of gloom and read like the season being voided is a given which it isn’t yet.

 

Although I think you’re probably right, we’re all missing football already and most of us are trying to maintain a positive outlook that the season can be finished one way or another. So whilst there’s still a degree of uncertainty, I think I’d rather be reading stand-offish posts saying ‘Lets wait and see’ or the like than bleak ‘That’s it, season over!’ posts and all the associated whataboutery, like it’s already been officially decided to void the season.

 

This absolutely isn’t a dig by the way, but I think until it’s set in stone, we need to take a step back and remain objective, stop focusing on the season being over and the potential ramifications until the fat lady (no not Marshmallo) has sung.

[Burnie_man]

15 minutes ago, 8MileBU said:

 

Whilst I agree the season being voided is the likely outcome, the tone of your last couple of posts on the matter are pretty bleak, full of gloom and read like the season being voided is a given which it isn’t yet.

So whilst I think you’re probably right, we’re all missing football already and most of us are trying to maintain a positive outlook that the season can be finished one way or another. So whilst there’s still a degree of uncertainty, I think I’d rather be reading stand-offish posts saying ‘Lets wait and see’ or the like than bleak ‘That’s it, season over!’ posts like it’s already been officially decided to void.
 

I'm just calling it how I see it, we need to deal with the reality of the situation and we're not going to be playing football anytime soon sadly.

If the Govt is about to advise the over 70's to reduce their social interaction for 4 months, and are looking at shutting down non-essential services eg. all shops apart from supermarkets and pharmacies, people working from home or not at all, and telling us that herd immunity is their intention ie most people get it, then you have to ask yourself about the reality of this season continuing.

The Ross County Chairman said yesterday we would struggle to get the new season started on time, let alone complete this one.  Personally I think there needs to be a reasonably early call on this so clubs, players, officials and fans know where they stand.

I'm choking for a game of football as much as anyone else BTW, but we need to be sensible.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Burnie_man

[albynpark]

28 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

What about players who have already signed for someone else next season?  What about players who are out of contract by then and won't re-sign? What about new players you have signed for next season from other clubs?  What about the new applicant clubs who expect to be playing EoS next season? Clubs could be faced with completely different squads by the time we re-start, and it will take about 3 months to finish the season.

If you void the season, you start afresh come August (or whenever) without creating problems that don't need created.

It will be painful for those clubs on the verge of promotion or winning something, but I really can't see a workable alternative that doesn't disrupt another season.

Clubs will have to suck that up and manage that, all clubs will be in the same position so that's fair. But you shouldn't have a void season when there's a solution to this, it's grossly unfair to teams like Bo'ness who have put resources and effort to be where they are and to other teams who have put themselves in good positions. They should all have a shot at the title while not having it given to them.  I can't see a competitive game until well  after October  after a pre warm-up period, it could even be next year! mix in a local league cup with neighbouring teams, we've got enough fixtures. Apart from contracts, It doesn't disrupt next season if it's not started until 2021