buddie06smfc Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 There's a basic logical failing there. You're saying clubs chasing promotion have had the chance to play their way up taken away from them, but you seem to not consider that clubs at the bottom should be allowed to play their way up also. The clubs in the play-off spots have had 'ample opportunity' to play their way into first. Those two issues are the same thing. I accept we might have to go down. But the notion that it is fair doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.No. They have had their potential opportunity taken away from them because they are in a what-if scenario with their current placing. Those in champions/relegation spots have a defined outcome. The clubs in play-off positions are treated unfairly because they potentially lose out on reward, not definitely, as there is no guarantee that they would be promoted. We just revert back to how the leagues were prior to the introduction of play offs for one season should circumstances not allow the full complement of games to be completed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, buddie06smfc said: No. They have had their potential opportunity taken away from them because they are in a what-if scenario with their current placing. Those in champions/relegation spots have a defined outcome. The clubs in play-off positions are treated unfairly because they potentially lose out on reward, not definitely, as there is no guarantee that they would be promoted. We just revert back to how the leagues were prior to the introduction of play offs for one season should circumstances not allow the full complement of games to be completed. Hearts are also in a what-if scenario. If they catch up four points on Hamilton, they could stay up. You're simply not applying logic to your argument. Either it is wrong for clubs to have future opportunities taken away from them, or it is not. If it's 'fair' for Hearts to be relegated, then it's perfectly fair for a club in the play-off position not to go up. Both clubs are having the opportunity to play their way into a better situation taken away from them. The play-off sides are being denied the chance to win games that would allow them to play in the Premiership. Hearts are being denied the chance to win games that would allow them to play in the Premiership. Hearts wouldn't be in this situation if they'd won more games. Inverness wouldn't be in this situation if they'd won more games. You're treating things differently that are the same. Also, those play-off sides may not be play-off sides if the season were to actually finish. Ayr and Dundee don't have a massive lead over Dunfermline. Edited April 9, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Hearts shouldn’t worry, they are too big to go down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Stubbs Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 A lot of people talking/writing as if the proposal is a dead cert to happen. I can't see how it gets voted through the morn, I'm not sure what I'm missing here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUMBER 7 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 The three certainties to win their leagues Celtic Dundee United and Cove, should all vote against the proposals, as they will be rewarded / promoted eventually, but for the integrity of the game they would be doing the right thing. You cannot relegate Hearts Partick or and justify any legitimate reason to do so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcleanscontacts Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Ok.Here goes. Declare no team as “champions” in any of the 4 divisions, play off between all teams mathematically capable of making it to Europe to decide who qualifies.In every league relegate ALL the teams who still have a mathematical possibility (however slight) of going down (they’re all shite anyway)From the Championship down promote ALL teams that still have a mathematical chance of winning the league (again, however slight). Once we know division sizes decide on playing each other twice or some sort of “split” that gives about 30 games per season. Season after, however many it takes to revert to 12 10 10 10 but a minimum of 2 relegations and promotions from each division just to make it interesting. That would be fun, no? It would be very, very Saints to win the Euro play off and get relegated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 In terms of the prize money to be dished out, would it not make sense to tweak that a bit this season? For example, there are two teams who can currently finish 1st, so would it not make sense to add together the tv money for the team in 1st and 2nd and then give each team half? There are a whole bunch of teams who can still finish 3rd. So why not add together all the prize money for their positions and divide it equally? Then continue this down the table. It seems silly to be financially rewarding clubs for league positions that could have changed the following weekend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 20 hours ago, JTS98 said: It's not about being happy or unhappy. We are where we are. My point is that some people seem to be trying to present this as 'fair'. It is absolutely not fair to deny a team a chance to play their way out of trouble, You can't dress that up. But I accept the situation. It's also not fair that school kids who have gone through a full year prepping for exams with things like University places at stake now have to rely on work they done 4 months ago in prelims as a measuring stick of whether they'll get a place on a course when this is all over with. Nothing is fair during this. There's not a lot in the world that seems fair right now. But the only real viable option is to go with what has been completed up until now, you can't keep a nation of school children back for a year, rip up everything that's gone before and just start again and the same should apply to sport. Draw a line under it and put an asterisk next to it, call it a technicality injustice or whatever. But it has to be resolved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Nothing is fair during this. Yes. That's my point. I'm not sure you've read or understood my posts. My point is that people arguing that it's 'fair' or deserved for Hearts to be relegated are wrong. It seems you agree with me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Yes. That's my point. I'm not sure you've read or understood my posts. My point is that people arguing that it's 'fair' or deserved for Hearts to be relegated are wrong. It seems you agree with me. I'm not sure where I disagreed so it seems it's yourself with a bit of comprehension issues. I do agree it's not fair but I'm presenting a case for why it has to happen. Fair or not, it's the only viable option that has been presented and should be the course of action. Null and void cannot happen... The SPFL would rather piss off a couple of clubs than sponsors and TV. Extending the league until the point where Rangers mathematically can't win it any more (as let's be honest, that is the only reason they stand with you on 'sporting integrity' , or else they'd be calling to end it and wailing for their prize money with the rest of us) also cannot happen. Of course, the' fairest' option would be reconstruction. No relegation across the board and bigger leagues. But I won't hang my hat on this happening. Edited April 10, 2020 by djchapsticks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewh Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 The unknown variable is when we will be able to play matches again. If that were possible to know it would inform everything that followed.Without that knowledge clubs will follow the money in reaching whatever decision they arrive at. I do understand that, but it’s a great pity that it drives our game and that two clubs dominate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) Clubs will vote for what is in their self interests Truth is if Motherwell were bottom of the table and not 3rd top my view would be entirely different on how the season should finish. But as has been mentioned Covid 19 is no ones fault apart from the Chinese. Therefore it is better to call a halt and screw up one season than it is to mess about with two seasons. That only suits those clubs that would be disadvantaged at this present moment. I would prefer a solution that saw no relegation as that is the biggest injustice and impact on sporting integrity, not might I add a club sitting 2nd in top flight with vague and fanciful notions they even had an outside chance of preventing Celtic winning the league. As it happens it will be a close vote and I suspect there are not enough clubs willing to vote this through today. Edited April 10, 2020 by welldaft 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I'd just not relegate anyone. promote two and just relegate more next year. even it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I'd just not relegate anyone. promote two and just relegate more next year. even it out. As was pointed out yesterday, that really isn't practical. You have 3 teams within 5 points of each other vying for the play off spaces, just not practical to automatically promote one of them. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 aye it is. The one with the most points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: aye it is. The one with the most points. Well just relegate the ones with least point too then. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Just now, tree house tam said: Well just relegate the ones with least point too then. I'd be all for that. I am more hopeful of reconstruction to be honest. If a situation like this helps that along so be it. But I am also for just finishing it as it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: aye it is. The one with the most points. Promote but not relegate? Forget about those pesky play offs? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Just now, bennett said: Promote but not relegate? Forget about those pesky play offs? Yeah. Then bathe in Cream Bun tears 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marly Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Clubs will vote for what is in their self interests Truth is if Motherwell were bottom of the table and not 3rd top my view would be entirely different on how the season should finish. But as has been mentioned Covid 19 is no ones fault apart from the Chinese. Therefore it is better to call a halt and screw up one season than it is to mess about with two seasons. That only suits those clubs that would be disadvantaged at this present moment. I would prefer a solution that saw no relegation as that is the biggest injustice and impact on sporting integrity, not might I add a club sitting 2nd in top flight with vague and fanciful notions they even had an outside chance of preventing Celtic winning the league. As it happens it will be a close vote and I suspect there are not enough clubs willing to vote this through today. Nobody's fault apart from the Chinese?Thanks for your input Mr Trump 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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