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Burnie_man

2020/2021 Scottish Cup

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45 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Getting 3 rounds played before Boxing Day shouldn’t be too much of a challenge for them if they are able to start as they hope in October.

You could argue they're worried about fitting in a normal league season for the non-league.

I on the other hand think its a bit of a cost saving exercise for the SFA and self-protection in favour of the SPFL clubs. SPFL clubs who have already seen a hand out to keep them going.

The flat rate of £5k doesn't take into account there's a chunk of clubs that would have made more than going from prelims to 2nd round, sees the SFA save on travel expenses, and doesn't consider the gate sharing bump in income clubs would also take in whether home or away.

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As I’ve suggested before reduce to the top two in the SPFL, with the additional requirement that if this doesn’t include Rangers* then one of the two must bow out gracefully and offer them their place.

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8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

You could argue they're worried about fitting in a normal league season for the non-league.

I on the other hand think its a bit of a cost saving exercise for the SFA and self-protection in favour of the SPFL clubs. SPFL clubs who have already seen a hand out to keep them going.

The flat rate of £5k doesn't take into account there's a chunk of clubs that would have made more than going from prelims to 2nd round, sees the SFA save on travel expenses, and doesn't consider the gate sharing bump in income clubs would also take in whether home or away.

They might have a bit of difficulty but the EoS for example reckons they can complete a full season as long as they start by January!

Compared to last season the LL would of had about 11 league games played.  Simply by using cup dates from during the season they can make up about 8 of them.  I’m pretty sure they are ok with losing the qualifying cup etc for a year. It wouldn’t take them that many midweeks to be back on track.  I’m pretty sure they rather do that than lose access to the Scottish cup.

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If not all SFA member clubs are allowed to participate this should be regarded as a one-off competition, given a special trophy and different name, and not counted in the records.

Of course this problem only occurs because of Hearts’ enforced late start because of their unfair relegation and consequential late start. So if not everyone can participate perhaps those SPFL clubs unwilling to vote for a fair outcome to last season might graciously give up their places to totally innocent teams.

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4 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

If not all SFA member clubs are allowed to participate this should be regarded as a one-off competition, given a special trophy and different name, and not counted in the records.

Of course this problem only occurs because of Hearts’ enforced late start because of their unfair relegation and consequential late start. So if not everyone can participate perhaps those SPFL clubs unwilling to vote for a fair outcome to last season might graciously give up their places to totally innocent teams.

In what way are these two things related? Even as a Championship club, Hearts wouldn't be entering the competition until January under the normal schedule, by which point their season will be well underway.

The main issue is that the earlier rounds are normally played from August to November, but many of the clubs involved will not be starting their season until October at the earliest.

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4 hours ago, parsforlife said:

They might have a bit of difficulty but the EoS for example reckons they can complete a full season as long as they start by January!

This would presumably be a lot harder if 3-5 weeks of that season disappear because of the Scottish Cup though.

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All these naive small non league clubs buying into a cup and organisation that is totally incompetent and will continue to shaft them . If it wasn't so tragic it would  be funny. 

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51 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This would presumably be a lot harder if 3-5 weeks of that season disappear because of the Scottish Cup though.

Well yes, if they can’t get started by January there’s no hope of Scottish cup entry.

 I think it’s perfectly reasonable though if they can get started by October that the rounds before SPFL sides enter can get played ready for a Boxing Day round when league 2 sides enter. I think it would reasonable to ask clubs to have a venue arranged for midweeks should the tie go to replay or postponed on the Saturday.  IMO it’s not unreasonable to remove the right to try again the next Saturday.  In the understanding that games need played in a short timeframe we could go immediately to the Monday-Wednesday-Saturday schedule that normally kicks in after a few postponements. 

IMO if PT SPFL football is able to start up then non-league will be able too as well.  The current requirements that premiership sides need to go through are impossible outside of FT football and anything affordable and practical will likely be possible to implement throughout the game.

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7 hours ago, parsforlife said:

I’m not sure how much the ‘struggle to fit in games’ stands up.

At a minimum the proposal is for 7 rounds.  So why not have at least 64 sides playing which we had playing at that stage last year?

What I got told is. Blazers plan has put S.p.f.l championship teams to start in the cup later on. And not room for some other teams if go on that plan.

 

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

The main issue is that the earlier rounds are normally played from August to November, but many of the clubs involved will not be starting their season until October at the earliest.

Not what Scottish F.a. told teams. Could work that out O.k.. told need to do it different because want to fit semis and final before S.p.f.l start next cup.

Edited by Dennis Smith

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In what way are these two things related? Even as a Championship club, Hearts wouldn't be entering the competition until January under the normal schedule, by which point their season will be well underway.
The main issue is that the earlier rounds are normally played from August to November, but many of the clubs involved will not be starting their season until October at the earliest.


There were press reports this morning that there was a perfectly acceptable schedule for the Cup but that this was vetoed by sponsors who refused the SFA permission to have the two seasons’ competitions overlapping.

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1 minute ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 


There were press reports this morning that there was a perfectly acceptable schedule for the Cup but that this was vetoed by sponsors who refused the SFA permission to have the two seasons’ competitions overlapping.

Even if that's true (which I have my doubts about since the 2020/21 season onwards doesn't even have a sponsor as far as I know), it has nothing to do with which decision Hearts are in. The competition is being restarted in November because the SFA want fans to attend, nothing to do with when league seasons start.

Edited by craigkillie

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1 hour ago, EdinburghBlue said:

 


There were press reports this morning that there was a perfectly acceptable schedule for the Cup but that this was vetoed by sponsors who refused the SFA permission to have the two seasons’ competitions overlapping.

Now it makes sense why the don't want the overlap. The change in sponsorship.

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Poor on clubs who have spent small fortunes on licensing.

No real suprise on protecting the dwindling gold reserves though.

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There should be more teams in the Scottish Cup not fewer. Can start at end of October and be in 4th Round for January / February as normal, no replays first 3 rounds though.

 

League One and League Two teams will all be voting for this then greeting about how Premiership clubs don't give them enough percentage of their TV money even though the teams that are getting kept below them in the pyramid get exactly £0 for their league games while they get thousands.

 

 

 

 

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Even if that's true (which I have my doubts about since the 2020/21 season onwards doesn't even have a sponsor as far as I know), it has nothing to do with which decision Hearts are in. The competition is being restarted in November because the SFA want fans to attend, nothing to do with when league seasons start.


Previous press reports suggested that the SFA would have liked to finish the 2019/20 cup earlier but couldn’t because of uncertainty over when Hearts would start their season.

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Guest DAVIDB69

If sponsors don’t want the idea of two season competitions overlapping , here is a novel idea why not just knock the seasons competition on the head and have prelims from October.

 

Absolutely no guarantee we will have crowds back by xmas anyway

 

We know that isn’t going to happen of course and the reasons.

 

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Just read the online Scottish Sun. Their article says that the 52 club set up is the preferred option......and says there are 2 other options which are 32 clubs ( top 3 SPFL leagues) and 42 clubs (all 4 SPFL leagues).

Based on the usual self interest approach taken by the sides to date the 10 league 1 sides will favour the 32 option and the 10 league 2 sides will favour the 42. Going to be yet another divisive vote.

SFA are making a shambles of this.

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How can they call it the Scottish Football Association Cup then only invite a minority of members to play?

Do all the teams get a vote on this ... are non-league full voting members?

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