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2020/2021 Scottish Cup


Burnie_man

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There were two counter proposals for 60 NL clubs to enter via 1 preliminary round (pre Final), and/or 30 NL clubs entering at R1 along with the 10 L2 clubs (on Boxing Day).

Maxwell poo poo'd the first suggestion because he claimed sponsorship issues, despite the fact that the Prelim rounds are almost always universally ignored by the media. Would William Hill really care if a Prelim round was under the auspices of a new sponsor (if they get one)?  We're in extraordinary times.

The second proposal - 30 clubs - would (I think), see all Champ clubs enter at the same round to make it work, that probably wouldn't please the top 4 finishers in the Champ as they would enter at a round that saw them receive £6k if they lost instead of £20k a round later.

As ever it's all about protecting the SPFL members clubs and f*ck everyone else, although to be fair all NL clubs who weren't selected to enter would receive £5k, but that's not really the point.

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The proper senior clubs and organisations aren't interested in the minions the canon fodder pretend senior clubs where the vast majority of the general football population think these clubs are still junior or boys clubs or student teams. 

People were warned about this and still charged on naively thinking change would come,  it wont its all a sham and been shown to be so and will continue to be shown as so in the future. 

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2 minutes ago, ballermk said:

The proper senior clubs and organisations aren't interested in the minions the canon fodder pretend senior clubs where the vast majority of the general football population think these clubs are still junior or boys clubs or student teams. 

People were warned about this and still charged on naively thinking change would come,  it wont its all a sham and been shown to be so and will continue to be shown as so in the future. 

f**k up 

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On 04/08/2020 at 12:58, ballermk said:

The proper senior clubs and organisations aren't interested in the minions the canon fodder pretend senior clubs where the vast majority of the general football population think these clubs are still junior or boys clubs or student teams. 

People were warned about this and still charged on naively thinking change would come,  it wont its all a sham and been shown to be so and will continue to be shown as so in the future. 

Juniors are still dead.

Your bitter bitter keyboard bashing rants around all of the clubs becoming Senior and leaving the cesspit behind fills me with so much joy. Please keep it up.

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14 hours ago, ballermk said:

Enjoy the 'Scottish cup ' this season the tiny number of teams involved nicely invited in,  🤣 laughing stock and people fall for it time after time.  

Love it. 

Juniors are still dead and your bitter bitter angry posting gives me joy that ALL of the clubs moved to the seniors and left the cesspit of racism behind. You seem quite keen to cling to that wreckage, wonder why?

 

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This is much more palatable in terms of the integrity of the competition. I'd rather every single club had the opportunity to take part, but it wouldn't be surprising if there were four who were willing to sit it out this year anyway if they're still guaranteed some prize money.

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  • 2 weeks later...
5 minutes ago, gogsy said:

How many teams can we dump that haven't got a licence, surely any would be in the four that miss out. 

There are only two qualifiers this year in Musselburgh Athletic and Auchinleck Talbot.

East Region Super, North Region Super, SoSFL were all voided. EoS Premier champion was licenced. Junior & Amateur Cups haven't been completed in time and might not be completed at all.

Edited by FairWeatherFan
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1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:
1 hour ago, gogsy said:

 

There are only two qualifiers this year in Musselburgh Athletic and Auchinleck Talbot.

Ironic that both now have floodlights since qualifying whilst some full members are missing theirs.

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3 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Ironic that both now have floodlights since qualifying whilst some full members are missing theirs.

Won't be a problem for too much longer. Its maybe Girvan, Wigtown & Bladnoch, Burntisland Shipyard and Golspie Sutherland that I haven't seen too much about. Other than a couple of them asking for planning permission. WW seem to be in the works of getting a set up and Coldstream & VoL got funding from the Borders Council that should see them sorted.

Not sure if there's someone else missing.

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On 13/08/2020 at 16:16, Ranaldo Bairn said:

Caledonian Braves suggest another option might be in the offing...

https://www.caledonianbraves.com/news/vote-1-scottish-cup-format-2020-21

Simplest way:

Round 1 - 84 teams (64 non-league, 20 from leagues One and Two);

Round 2 - 64 teams (42 from R1, 22 from Premiership and Championship);

Round 3 - 32 winners from R2.

 

It would mean an additional fixture for the big clubs, but that would be against a very wee club - unless they seed Round 1, in order to knock out some of the little guys first.

 

How to do it?

Basic structure of knock-out rounds for a cup - 2 team final, 4 teams in semis, 8 quarter-finalists, then 16, 32, 64, 128, etc.

If you have 10 teams more than the Round of 64 needs (i.e. 74 teams), for example, then you take an additional 10 teams from within that 64 in order to create a Round 1 of 20 teams, the 10 winners then feeding back into a Round 2 of 64 teams (i.e 54 teams, plus the 10 Round 1 winners).

If you have 1 team less than the Round of 64 needs (i.e. 63 teams) you give one team a 'by', the remaining 62 teams participate in Round 1, with the 31 winners plus the 'by' participating in Round 2.

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Why would the additional fixture be "against a very wee club". The Scottish Cup has an open draw, so that additional fixture for a Premiership club could very easily be against a fellow top flight club.

I don't think the issue here is that the SFA don't understand how to produce a standard tournament structure to involve all the teams, the issue is that the Scottish Cup has for many years had a phased entry approach for a number of reasons; to reduce the number of games played by the top flight clubs, to act as a reward for higher league finishes and to avoid ludicrous mismatches like Celtic v Golspie Sutherland which could genuinely end up about 25-0.

The current competition structure would involve a total of 10 rounds if you include the preliminaries, and it is clearly not feasible to squeeze that many rounds into January-May without massive levels of disruption to league football at all levels, so the SFA have to instead come up with a temporary solution which is acceptable to its voting members. Any sort of structure which asks the top 16 clubs to play an extra game is immediately going to have 16 votes against it and it is therefore going to be challenging to get such a structure passed. Rightly or wrongly, it is instead easier to look at how to organise the early rounds, where many of the participants don't have a vote.

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Preliminary Round - 8 clubs (non-league);

Round 1 - 60 clubs (4 Prelim winners, plus the remaining 56 non-league clubs);

Round 2 - 40 clubs (30 R1 winners, plus 10 League Two clubs);

Round 3 - 40 clubs (20 R2 winners, plus 10 League One clubs, plus 10 Championship clubs);

Round 4 - 32 clubs (20 R3 winners, plus 12 Premiership clubs);

Round 5 - 16 clubs R4 (winners);

QF, SF, F - as normal.

 

9 rounds, phased, no-one misses out, no ballot required.

 

If you're aiming for a round of 60 teams, but have a surplus of 4 teams (i.e. 64 eligible), you need to take a further 4 teams from within the 60 in order to make up your Preliminary Round of 8 teams, with the 4 winners then folding back into the Round of 60.

Similarly, if you are 5 teams short of your Round of 32 (for example), you need to give 5 teams a 'by' to the Round of 16, with the remaining 22 teams facing off to join them in that Round.

And so on, for each round.

 

Good luck.

Edited by prodcast
Attempting clarity.
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If the objectives are to have the top 16 clubs entering at Round 4, and to include all 64 eligible non-league clubs, then an 8 round competition is possible:

 

Round 1 - 64 teams (all non-league);

Round 2 - 52 teams (32 winners from R1, plus 20 teams from League One and League Two);

Round 3 - 32 teams (26 winners from R2, plus 6 Championship teams);

Round 4 - 32 teams (16 winners from R3, plus 4 from Championship, plus 12 from Premiership);

Round 5 - 16 teams (winners of R4 ties);

Quarter-Finals, Semi-Finals, and Final - as normal.

 

Sorry to be boorish or patronising or for seemingly spamming this thread, but it seemed important.

I'll go away now.

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1 hour ago, Deanburn Dave said:

When is there a decision getting made on the format of the Scottish Cup ?

The Caledonian Braves post I put up a while ago was dated 13/8/20. They said the SFA would decide at their meeting "next week" i.e. the week of the 17th, so I'm surprised we've not heard anything since.

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4 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

The Caledonian Braves post I put up a while ago was dated 13/8/20. They said the SFA would decide at their meeting "next week" i.e. the week of the 17th, so I'm surprised we've not heard anything since.

I did see your  post . Initially I thought it was an SFA vote that Caledonian Braves were promoting but then as i read on I realised that it was the non SPFL teams trying to find out if there was agreement between the clubs at  that level to push for an alternative.       The more clubs in the Scottish the better IMO.

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