Burnie_man Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) With 6 new clubs Licenced today (Haddington. Bo'ness, Dunipace, Camelon, Newtongrange and Tranent), and maybe more to follow before the SFA AGM, anyone care to take a punt on how the Prelims might be structured for next season? EDIT: 6 clubs now Edited February 27, 2020 by Burnie_man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Just now, Burnie_man said: With 5 new clubs Licenced today (Haddington. Bo'ness, Dunipace, Camelon, and Newtongrange), and maybe more to follow before the SFA AGM, anyone care to take a punt on how the Prelims might be structured for next season? I'll wait and see if any of the existing members lose there's before the AGM before having a proper guess. Chances are you can still make the current structure of 2 prelims work with the numbers dependent on that. Maybe just have HL champion & LL Champion enter the 2nd Round to open up some spots instead of the four that go to Tier 5. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I feel like I'm constantly banging on about this, but the simple approach is just to have all the Championship clubs entering at R3, rather than the top four sides entering R4 as is currently the case. That would reduce it to only one preliminary round with minimal impact on the rest of the competition. These four Championship clubs tend to have the week off on R3 weekend anyway. For simplicity, let's assume that only those 5 clubs are licensed (and that nobody loses theirs), that would give us 103 licensed clubs in total. Let's also assume that there are no other changes to the entry list - ie that the Junior, Amateur, EoS, SoS and South & East Shield spots remain open. That means we could have as many as 109 entrants (103 licensed + 4 Junior + Musselburgh + Amateur Cup). It's slightly complicated by not knowing how many teams will be in the Highland League next year, but the entry list would look something like that. PR - 35/36 (Tier 6 and below + other entrants) R1 - 29/30 (HL & LL outside top 2) R2 - 14 (League 2 + top 2 HL and LL) R3 - 20 (Championship + League 1) R4 - 10 Premiership Preliminary Round - 26 teams Round 1 - 52 teams (15/16 HL + 14 LL + 9/10 byes + 13 winners) Round 2 - 40 teams (26 R2 winners + 10 League 2 + 2 HL + 2 LL) Round 3 - 40 teams (20 R2 winners + 10 Championship + 10 League 1) Round 4 - 32 teams (20 R3 winners + 12 Premiership) 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, craigkillie said: I feel like I'm constantly banging on about this, but the simple approach is just to have all the Championship clubs entering at R3, rather than the top four sides entering R4 as is currently the case. That would reduce it to only one preliminary round with minimal impact on the rest of the competition. These four Championship clubs tend to have the week off on R3 weekend anyway. There's a £14k difference between R3 exit and R4 exit, £6k R3, £20k R4. That perhaps plays a part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 WILLIAM HILL SCOTTISH CUP 2019-20 CLUB BONUS PAYMENTS Bonus payments for club participation in the William Hill Scottish Cup will be distributed as outlined below. The sums will be paid to each club playing in each round: Clubs playing in the 1st Preliminary Round will receive (26 clubs) £3,000 Clubs playing in the 2nd Preliminary Round will receive (14 clubs) £3,000 Clubs playing in Round One will receive (36 clubs) £4,000 Clubs playing in Round Two will receive (32 clubs) £5,000 Clubs playing in Round Three will receive (32 clubs) £6,000 Clubs playing in Round Four will receive (32 clubs) £20,000 Clubs playing in Round Five will receive (16 clubs) £40,000 Clubs Playing in Round Six will receive (8 clubs) £80,000 Semi-Finalist Clubs will receive (4 clubs) £100,000 Loser of the Final Tie will receive £160,000 Winner of the Final Tie will receive £240,000 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 It wouldn't affect R4 payments - you've still got 32 clubs playing and 16 going out. By my reckoning Craigkillie's model would only involve increasing prizemoney pot by 2.4%, or alternately you could drop payments by a mere £350 (or only payments before R4 by £500). When the cup got reorganised in 2007 there weren't enough clubs to fill R1 - nevermind prelims - so it was padded out with 4 byes from R3 to R4 and 4 from R1 to R2 (plus usually another random bye). Now there are too many clubs even for 2 prelims it'd be appropriate to reduce that padding, IMO. Anyway rather premature chat. Big news is more clubs join after investing in their facilities and systems. Bo'ness sees a big name return and they, Camelon or Dunipace v Falkirk could be "tasty". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnie_man Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: It wouldn't affect R4 payments - you've still got 32 clubs playing and 16 going out. By my reckoning Craigkillie's model would only involve increasing prizemoney pot by 2.4%, or alternately you could drop payments by a mere £350 (or only payments before R4 by £500). Yeah I know, but suggesting that all Championship sides enter at R3, means that for four clubs who are guaranteed £20k (by entering at R4), they are now only guaranteed £6k (by entering at R3). It may not be a factor, just throwing it out there because this is Scottish fitba where every penny is jealously guarded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Only if they're so unsure of their own ability they fear losing to lower-ranked sides (or low chance of drawing each other). More likely they win, avoid a free week, pocket extra £6k and half-gate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Even if those clubs did think that way, they're unlikely to be a large enough bloc to really prevent it from happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 Does anyone have a list of clubs due to enter next year's cup ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 10 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Does anyone have a list of clubs due to enter next year's cup ? Something like this. Some of the SFA members are at risk of losing their licences due to not having floodlights. Have no idea if due to the circumstances around corona some sort of extension might be granted. Especially as everything is up in the air at the moment. SPFL Premiership 1 Aberdeen 2 Celtic 3 Hamilton Academical 4 Heart of Midlothian 5 Hibernian 6 Kilmarnock 7 Livingston 8 Motherwell 9 Rangers 10 Ross County 11 St Johnstone 12 St Mirren SPFL Championship 13 Alloa Athletic 14 Arbroath 15 Ayr United 16 Dundee 17 Dundee United 18 Dunfermline Athletic 19 Greenock Morton 20 Inverness CT 21 Partick Thistle 22 Queen of the South SPFL League One 23 Airdrieonians 24 Clyde 25 Dumbarton 26 East Fife 27 Falkirk 28 Forfar Athletic 29 Montrose 30 Peterhead 31 Raith Rovers 32 Stranraer SPFL League Two 33 Albion Rovers 34 Annan Athletic 35 Brechin City 36 Cove Rangers 37 Cowdenbeath 38 Edinburgh City 39 Elgin City 40 Queen's Park 41 Stenhousemuir 42 Stirling Albion Highland Football League 43 Brora Rangers 44 Buckie Thistle 45 Clachnacuddin 46 Deveronvale 47 Formartine United 48 Forres Mechanics 49 Fort William 50 Fraserburgh 51 Huntly 52 Inverurie Loco Works 53 Keith 54 Lossiemouth 55 Nairn County 56 Rothes 57 Strathspey Thistle 58 Turriff United 59 Wick Academy Lowland Football League 60 Berwick Rangers 61 Bonnyrigg Rose Athletic 62 BSC Glasgow 63 Caledonian Braves 64 Civil Service Strollers 65 Cumbernauld Colts 66 Dalbeattie Star 67 East Kilbride 68 East Stirlingshire 69 Edinburgh University 70 Gala Fairydean Rovers 71 Gretna 2008 72 Kelty Hearts 73 The Spartans 74 Stirling University 75 Vale of Leithen South of Scotland Football League 76 Newton Stewart 77 St Cuthbert Wanderers 78 Threave Rovers 79 Wigtown & Bladnoch East of Scotland Football League 80 Blackburn United 81 Bo'ness United 82 Broxburn Athletic 83 Burntisland Shipyard 84 Camelon Juniors 85 Coldstream 86 Dundonald Bluebell 87 Dunipace 88 Easthouses Lily Miners Welfare 89 Haddington Athletic 90 Hawick Royal Albert United 91 Hill of Beath Hawthorn 92 Jeanfield Swifts 93 Linlithgow Rose 94 Lothian Thistle Hutchison Vale 95 Newtongrange Star 96 Penicuik Athletic 97 Preston Athletic 98 Tranent Juniors 99 Tynecastle 100 Whitehill Welfare Other SFA members 101 Banks O'Dee 102 Girvan 103 Glasgow University 104 Golspie Sutherland Qualifiers 105 Musselburgh Athletic (South & East Cup Winners' Shield) Amateur Cup winner Junior Cup winner SJFA West Premiership champion SJFA East Superleague champion SJFA North Superleague champion SoSFL champion EoSFL Premier Division champion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) I'm running a mock Scottish Cup this weekend (shut it we are all bored) for pals to bet on. I have 109 entrants with the teams above. I just took Colville and Auchinleck as last year's cup winners and have declared Auchinleck, Carnoustie, Banks o Dee, Threave and Bo' Ness league winners on a PPG system. So Auchinleck, Colville, Carnoustie and BoD qualify. I'll need to look at Craigkillies system as what I have ended up with is 3 prelim rounds and prelim round having 22 byes 108. Forgot BoD were licensed. Might let Kilwinning Rangers in seeing as they were doing so well Edited March 27, 2020 by invergowrie arab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Lanley Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 5 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: I'm running a mock Scottish Cup this weekend (shut it we are all bored) for pals to bet on. I have 109 entrants with the teams above. I just took Colville and Auchinleck as last year's cup winners and have declared Auchinleck, Carnoustie, Banks o Dee, Threave and Bo' Ness league winners on a PPG system. So Auchinleck, Colville, Carnoustie and BoD qualify. I'll need to look at Craigkillies system as what I have ended up with is 3 prelim rounds and prelim round having 22 byes 108. Forgot BoD were licensed. Might let Kilwinning Rangers in seeing as they were doing so well Could do the mock draw on here mate and everyone donates a fiver or so to it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 6 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: I'm running a mock Scottish Cup this weekend (shut it we are all bored) for pals to bet on. I have 109 entrants with the teams above. I just took Colville and Auchinleck as last year's cup winners and have declared Auchinleck, Carnoustie, Banks o Dee, Threave and Bo' Ness league winners on a PPG system. So Auchinleck, Colville, Carnoustie and BoD qualify. I'll need to look at Craigkillies system as what I have ended up with is 3 prelim rounds and prelim round having 22 byes 108. Forgot BoD were licensed. Might let Kilwinning Rangers in seeing as they were doing so well Amateur Cup winners for accuracy - take your pick from semi-finalists Tollcross Thistle / Eastfield or Shortlees / Drumchapel Ams 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Lyle Lanley said: Could do the mock draw on here mate and everyone donates a fiver or so to it. I'll test it and see how it goes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 (edited) When is this due to start then? Wonder if he have a situation where far from having over 100 entrants we end up having a dozen. Edited May 24, 2020 by invergowrie arab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrman2011 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I think that this should be an exclusive competition for the top 20 teams in Scotland for this next year -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tutankhamen Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, mrman2011 said: I think that this should be an exclusive competition for the top 20 teams in Scotland for this next year Gives the Teddy Bears a chance. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 If we're looking at (possibly) a full return to games by end of Sept/early Oct, the Scottish Cup would need to be curtailed although not by too much? could we therefore see a bit of re-jigging with Prelims scrapped and everyone below L2 in at Round 1? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 Current Format would mean: Second Round = 32 teams = 10x SPFL2, 2x HFL, 2x LL + 18 First Round Winners First Round = 36 teams = 15x HL, 15x LL + 6 preliminaries Preliminaries = 30 teams = 20x EoSFL, 4x SoSFL, 4x Others, Auchinleck Talbot (West Premiership winner), Musselburgh Athletic (S&E Cup Winners' Shield) So even with lack of qualifiers there would have to be a restructuring. I don't think the Highland League declared positions other than their champions, and not sure if the LL did the same. So they could always just restrict the Second Round byes to the champions. But the more pressing concern is likely to be fitting it into the calendar over retaining the current format. Both prelims last season were played in August and the First Round in September. Hopefully that will mean a more significant streamlining. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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