Juniors to East Seniors to Lowland League - what's the difference?

[theesel1994 624]

Lovely - another Pyramid thread.

This one is more about the Seniors as the West Seniors don't have a forum......yet.

The Licencing goes into many things but what happens in reality? Segregation is required. Different toilets, different catering, different entrances etc. Does this happen in reality for Lowland League matches? Do EoSL have separate catering at their matches in preparation for stepping up? I can understand segregation in the Scottish FA Cup.....but the LL?

Provision for disabled spectators:

• A covered area with space for at least 2 wheelchairs and Personal Assistants.

So if there is already a covered stand would easy access for wheelchairs to this area be sufficient or would a shelter need to be created within that covered stand? Any time I google for images I get the Kilmarnock shelter.

What differences have happened in the East at grounds for clubs that are not fully licensed?

 

[Junior Pub League 606]

Don't know who is feeding you this shite but there is NO mandatory requirement for segregation at EOS or at the games I've been to at LL level.

There are also plenty of SPFL grounds I've been to where there has been no segregation - Peterhead, Forfar, Montrose, Brechin etc

Edited February 16, 2020 by Junior Pub League

[theesel1994 624]

This is what I'm trying to find out -  the reality of things.

Segregation and separate catering IS required for the Licence - but how do clubs operate in reality to gain this Licence.

[parsforlife 2,256]

22 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

Lovely - another Pyramid thread.

This one is more about the Seniors as the West Seniors don't have a forum......yet.

The Licencing goes into many things but what happens in reality? Segregation is required. Different toilets, different catering, different entrances etc. Does this happen in reality for Lowland League matches? Do EoSL have separate catering at their matches in preparation for stepping up? I can understand segregation in the Scottish FA Cup.....but the LL?

Provision for disabled spectators:

• A covered area with space for at least 2 wheelchairs and Personal Assistants.

So if there is already a covered stand would easy access for wheelchairs to this area be sufficient or would a shelter need to be created within that covered stand? Any time I google for images I get the Kilmarnock shelter.

What differences have happened in the East at grounds for clubs that are not fully licensed?

 

As long as your stand is accessible then it should be ok. There might be a requirement to mark a section for wheelchair use but nothing to say they can’t in the same stand.

its been a while since I read the regulations but I believe the wording is something along the lines of ‘allowance’ for segregation when required. Segregation is uncommon outside of the top 2 leagues, it only really comes in for big fixtures. I believe that you need to demonstrate to the SFA how you would segregate fans if required, but your not expected to have this in place week to week.  It would require separate entry toilets etc but you could hire things in when required. There’s many different solutions for this.

its worth noting even when segregation is needed it’s often ‘ light segregation’ with toilets/catering etc still shared and tbh not an whole lot to stop fans getting at each other if they wanted,  a lot of the time it’s basically the fans choosing to follow it.  We are adults after all.    You do get the other extreme of 2 lines of stewards/police, a neutral zone between fans and segregation outside of the ground but the chances of that being required is basically 0. 

in terms of changes in the east, there’s too many to mention, most clubs are doing something towards licensing even if they are expecting it to be a long process.

[glensmad 4,916]

Segregation and separate catering IS required for the Licence

Not that I can remember seeing in the Entry Level license requirements, and I've read them from A to Z.

[parkcircus 645]

Buffs committee went to Spartans yesterday, only difference we saw from our ground was Match Stewards, 2 of them and a turnstile, some junior clubs have these some don’t 

other than that it was the same as the Benburb match last week

[theesel1994 624]

5 minutes ago, glensmad said:

Not that I can remember seeing in the Entry Level license requirements, and I've read them from A to Z.

 

Well that's going to save a lot of arguments. To be fair when I was reading the licence requirements online (on a monitor, not tablet) I had to turn my head to the side to read them. I've now found a version that I don't need to tilt my head so can have a better read at them.

[parsforlife 2,256]

15 minutes ago, glensmad said:

 

 

Not that I can remember seeing in the Entry Level license requirements, and I've read them from A to Z.

 

‘Refreshment Facilities: Parking Facilities:
These shall be provided to spectators. In the event of a segregated area being required, it must have exclusive catering facilities and both male and female toilets which may be of temporary nature. The club shall ensure that the refreshment requirements of disabled spectators are catered for.’

Not too far off what I remember. As said it’s not something to be considered week to week but more something you need to show you can do should you get a big draw in the Scottish cup for example.
 

[andy25 1,228]

And Ainslie Park had cover for supporters...

Buffs committee went to Spartans yesterday, only difference we saw from our ground was Match Stewards, 2 of them and a turnstile, some junior clubs have these some don’t 
other than that it was the same as the Benburb match last week

[Gordon EF 5,909]

49 minutes ago, theesel1994 said:

This is what I'm trying to find out -  the reality of things.

Segregation and separate catering IS required for the Licence - but how do clubs operate in reality to gain this Licence.

There's plenty of SPFL grounds where I've never seen segregation or separate catering facilities. None of the four SPFL Angus clubs have ever had these when I've been there for example.

[FairWeatherFan 3,663]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

Lovely - another Pyramid thread.

This one is more about the Seniors as the West Seniors don't have a forum......yet.

The Licencing goes into many things but what happens in reality? Segregation is required.

I can understand segregation in the Scottish FA Cup.....but the LL?

Like you said i'm pretty sure the segregation requirements are only there for when they're needed. Which is in the case of a big Scottish Cup game for the most part. Its basically having a plan in place for when its needed.

Edited February 16, 2020 by FairWeatherFan

[Ginaro 1,768]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

Well that's going to save a lot of arguments. To be fair when I was reading the licence requirements online (on a monitor, not tablet) I had to turn my head to the side to read them. I've now found a version that I don't need to tilt my head so can have a better read at them.

Don't know where you found another version, but the only one I'd trust is that on this page https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/football-governance/club-licensing/

Just use the rotate clockwise function in your browser or PDF reader https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/5839/scottish-fa-club-licensing-manual-2020.pdf

[Ginaro 1,768]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

Provision for disabled spectators:

• A covered area with space for at least 2 wheelchairs and Personal Assistants.

So if there is already a covered stand would easy access for wheelchairs to this area be sufficient or would a shelter need to be created within that covered stand? Any time I google for images I get the Kilmarnock shelter.

What differences have happened in the East at grounds for clubs that are not fully licensed?

Tranent created this along from their covered stand, Linlithgow had to do something similar as well.

[craigkillie 13,029]

There's plenty of SPFL grounds where I've never seen segregation or separate catering facilities. None of the four SPFL Angus clubs have ever had these when I've been there for example.

All they need to do is show that they are capable of having segregation. I'm sure when the likes of Celtic or Rangers visit they will be asked to segregate.

[GordonS 5,220]

1 hour ago, theesel1994 said:

Well that's going to save a lot of arguments. To be fair when I was reading the licence requirements online (on a monitor, not tablet) I had to turn my head to the side to read them. I've now found a version that I don't need to tilt my head so can have a better read at them.

We had to have segregation for the recent Scottish Cup tie against Falkirk. Don't know why, we managed not to fight with Raith Rovers fans and we don't even have it for games against Bo'ness. We put portaloos and a burger van at the Academy end for the Falkirk fans.

I imagine you had something similar for the game against Ayr?

[ArabAuslander 680]

3 hours ago, Junior Pub League said:

Don't know who is feeding you this shite but there is NO mandatory requirement for segregation at EOS or at the games I've been to at LL level.

There are also plenty of SPFL grounds I've been to where there has been no segregation - Peterhead, Forfar, Montrose, Brechin etc

I was at Cove vs Edinburgh City yesterday and there was no segregation.

Think clubs have to show the ability that they can safely segregate. 

[Burnie_man 6,808]

Re disabled cover, if you are able to accomodate two wheelchairs inside an existing enclosure then that would meet the requirment, you also just need to provide a couple of chairs for their helpers and maybe mark out the area and put a sign up.

Re segregation, you won't need this unless you draw an SPFL side in the Scottish, and as has been pointed out, portaloos and a burger vans would meet requirements.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Burnie_man

[Hoofhearted 116]

Buffs committee went to Spartans yesterday, only difference we saw from our ground was Match Stewards, 2 of them and a turnstile, some junior clubs have these some don’t 
other than that it was the same as the Benburb match last week

Only reason we had Stewards was we expected a bigger than normal away support from Kelty. However the weather put paid to that.
For our bigger cup games we didn't segregate but did use the extra entry gates.

[surely not! 552]

Tbf, a lot of the requirements are essentially public comfort demands that ‘customers’ should expect in the western world in 2020. Shelter from the elements with seating opportunities, hygienic and covered toilets to suit everyone, wash facilities and food that meets health and safety standards.

 

Any club who’s not putting them in place (regardless of whether senior/junior or pyramid/licence or not) and charging folk for entry is bang out of order imo.

 

[mightychewbacca 42]

So if you're a club who has some of these things and are working towards/ trying to find funding for getting the rest you should let folk in for free?

Tbf, a lot of the requirements are essentially public comfort demands that ‘customers’ should expect in the western world in 2020. Shelter from the elements with seating opportunities, hygienic and covered toilets to suit everyone, wash facilities and food that meets health and safety standards.
 
Any club who’s not putting them in place (regardless of whether senior/junior or pyramid/licence or not) and charging folk for entry is bang out of order imo.