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Redondo

Time for change ??

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With all that is going on in Junior football the now with quite a few teams from the West expressing desire's to join the pyramid in a potential WOSFL, surely that could well be the end for the Junior game?

What then for the future of the Ammie game? 

With the Ammie game seemingly in decline also it must be time for the powers that be to look at ways of re energizing our game? The answers on how they do it won't be easy to find but the time is coming for change I feel. 

One thing I would suggest would be for Leagues to merge together. 

Central & Caley for example, say between them they got 60 teams split over 4 leagues,

14 team Super League, 14 team Premier League, and 1st/2nd divs made up of 16 teams each.

Surely this would be a very attractive scenario for all teams/players and it would give u balanced and competitive leagues. 

I dont know the politics involved with committees etc and if something like this would even get considered as an idea but for me it would definetely be an exciting prospect. 

Personally dont think the ammie game can go on in its current state and expect things to pick up, it has to make changes.

Thoughts anyone?

 

 

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With all that is going on in Junior football the now with quite a few teams from the West expressing desire's to join the pyramid in a potential WOSFL, surely that could well be the end for the Junior game?
What then for the future of the Ammie game? 
With the Ammie game seemingly in decline also it must be time for the powers that be to look at ways of re energizing our game? The answers on how they do it won't be easy to find but the time is coming for change I feel. 
One thing I would suggest would be for Leagues to merge together. 
Central & Caley for example, say between them they got 60 teams split over 4 leagues,
14 team Super League, 14 team Premier League, and 1st/2nd divs made up of 16 teams each.
Surely this would be a very attractive scenario for all teams/players and it would give u balanced and competitive leagues. 
I dont know the politics involved with committees etc and if something like this would even get considered as an idea but for me it would definetely be an exciting prospect. 
Personally dont think the ammie game can go on in its current state and expect things to pick up, it has to make changes.
Thoughts anyone?
 
 

Agreed, good idea

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With all that is going on in Junior football the now with quite a few teams from the West expressing desire's to join the pyramid in a potential WOSFL, surely that could well be the end for the Junior game?
What then for the future of the Ammie game? 
With the Ammie game seemingly in decline also it must be time for the powers that be to look at ways of re energizing our game? The answers on how they do it won't be easy to find but the time is coming for change I feel. 
One thing I would suggest would be for Leagues to merge together. 
Central & Caley for example, say between them they got 60 teams split over 4 leagues,
14 team Super League, 14 team Premier League, and 1st/2nd divs made up of 16 teams each.
Surely this would be a very attractive scenario for all teams/players and it would give u balanced and competitive leagues. 
I dont know the politics involved with committees etc and if something like this would even get considered as an idea but for me it would definetely be an exciting prospect. 
Personally dont think the ammie game can go on in its current state and expect things to pick up, it has to make changes.
Thoughts anyone?
 
 
Good idea but it would make the West and Scottish Cups less appealing which is why imo the safa wouldn't allow it

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I like the idea of a shake up but I can’t see the SAFA or the leagues going for that.
 

I read on the junior forum that Drumchapel YM(central) have noted an interest and that Glasgow Uni(Cali) are rumoured to be interested in joining a new west of Scotland league in the pyramid. No idea if this is true but wondering if there would be any others with the ambition or facilities to apply? I remember rumours of Glasgow uni wanting to join the lowland league when they moved to the Airdrie stadium a few years ago but nothing ever came or it. 

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Redondo- We at the SAFL submitted ideas and met with the SAFA office bearers to address the issues faced by ALL leagues within The Amateur structure , it was based on regionally platform but very importantly the current Leagues still kept their own Identity [ that's why your suggestion will never happen ] and it also involved a super League. and a pyramid system.

Sadly it was rejected by the executive committee of the SAFA, though we given the opportunity to submit constitution changes.

I go to council meetings of The SAFA and at the last meeting it was  raised by a  Sunday League rep regarding issues facing the Amateur game. and it was taken on board by the office bearers and will be discussed at a future meeting and any suggestions by any parties were invited to put to the National Secretary.

 

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33 minutes ago, auld yin wae knowledge said:

Redondo- We at the SAFL submitted ideas and met with the SAFA office bearers to address the issues faced by ALL leagues within The Amateur structure , it was based on regionally platform but very importantly the current Leagues still kept their own Identity [ that's why your suggestion will never happen ] and it also involved a super League. and a pyramid system.

Sadly it was rejected by the executive committee of the SAFA, though we given the opportunity to submit constitution changes.

I go to council meetings of The SAFA and at the last meeting it was  raised by a  Sunday League rep regarding issues facing the Amateur game. and it was taken on board by the office bearers and will be discussed at a future meeting and any suggestions by any parties were invited to put to the National Secretary.

 

Possibly an ignorant question here, but why is it so important that leagues "keep their own identity"? From the outside it looks nothing more than an ego trip.

Surely we already have who we need spread across all the leagues in each region, we have people who want to be involved in the game, people who want to support the game and most importantly people who love the game.

There appears to be a few office bearers/committee members of leagues who want to stifle and hinder progress for the sake of history or sentiment to a league name, which is just that, a name only.

Using Redondo's example above, i think this could be a foundation for a great idea and genuinely don't understand why some one from either league would pick up the phone and say "in our opinion, we have the 2 best leagues in the region, why don't we merge all the teams and create what would most likely be a superb set up with teams playing new opponents, going to new pitches and experiencing new referees"

I hope people dont think i am suggesting i have all the answers as i clearly don't, but whether people want to admit it or not, the amateur game as a whole is dying on its arse and it needs not just change, but radical change to give it a fresh boost.

 

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I think a shake up in the amateur game is a great idea, especially having a super league type idea where all the best teams play. However, there are a lot of good clubs, with good people behind them who already struggle to attract enough, or suitably able players to play week in week out. If they found themselves in the bottom tier then I fear they would be forced out the game. The best and bigger teams will get bigger and better and the standard lower down will be diluted would be my worry.

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29 minutes ago, jaggyness said:

I think a shake up in the amateur game is a great idea, especially having a super league type idea where all the best teams play. However, there are a lot of good clubs, with good people behind them who already struggle to attract enough, or suitably able players to play week in week out. If they found themselves in the bottom tier then I fear they would be forced out the game. The best and bigger teams will get bigger and better and the standard lower down will be diluted would be my worry.

The flip side of being in the lower tiers is that u would in theory be playing against teams of a similar standard/ability which in turn would make it a more competitive league and with the possibility of possibly winning more games and challenging for trophies. 

There are always going to be bigger/better teams that is the case at all levels of the game, unfortunately the game cant be held back because potentially some teams may struggle, that is life at the end if the day.

Regards the Scottish & west comps, dont see it affecting them tbh, they will still have there appeal imo. 

I think there is definetely a opportunity for the Ammie game to step up here with what looks like the inevitable demise of the Junior game, it wouldnt happen overnight but with the proper changes in structure u could have game that is thriving in a few years. 

Do nothing and I really fear the worst long term.

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33 minutes ago, jaggyness said:

I think a shake up in the amateur game is a great idea, especially having a super league type idea where all the best teams play. However, there are a lot of good clubs, with good people behind them who already struggle to attract enough, or suitably able players to play week in week out. If they found themselves in the bottom tier then I fear they would be forced out the game. The best and bigger teams will get bigger and better and the standard lower down will be diluted would be my worry.

Again, you make a good point and the last thing that any one would want would be for teams and good people to fall away from the game. Regarding this, it  would be an issue that would have to be taken under consideration, the example used above only affected two leagues. Some teams may leave that sort of set up and move else where and vice verse. 

However, to play devils advocate,  the standard is already diluted if you look across the vast majority of leagues. In any restructure, if done correctly, by using as much information available, there should  be more competitive leagues and divisions all throughout the country. Promotion and relegation would obviously stay, could look at maximising play off situations. League cups could be changed to divisional cups to cover ceratin divisions,  along with on "all league cup" which could possibly mean no team would in any more than 5 competitions - their league, Scottish cup, regional cup,divisional cup and "all league cup"

 

Again, a lot of waffle from my end, but just my thought on how things could be improved.

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Always good to have a look at how we improve any grade of football. We need to get the right balance in any think tank/working group and all meetings fully minuted and made available. If not then there will be all sorts of accusations of self interest being made.

As for the better teams getting bigger, better players will invariably go to the top clubs. It won't make much of a difference to 'lesser' teams.

To be honest though I can't see Caley or Central being too keen as they can generally attract the better teams anyway.

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5 minutes ago, justagoalie said:

Always good to have a look at how we improve any grade of football. We need to get the right balance in any think tank/working group and all meetings fully minuted and made available. If not then there will be all sorts of accusations of self interest being made.

As for the better teams getting bigger, better players will invariably go to the top clubs. It won't make much of a difference to 'lesser' teams.

To be honest though I can't see Caley or Central being too keen as they can generally attract the better teams anyway.

I agree, i don't see them being interested at all- the reason i am asking is why are they not interested? What do they lose from having a bigger, more professional set up with better teams?

Is it ego? is it a financial thing? politics of poor personal relationships with folk in other leagues? Is it fear of the unknown or being surplus to requirements or having a lesser role in a new set up than they currently do? Maybe its none of those things at all and i am just not educated enough in the matter.

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34 minutes ago, Bridgewater said:

I agree, i don't see them being interested at all- the reason i am asking is why are they not interested? What do they lose from having a bigger, more professional set up with better teams?

Is it ego? is it a financial thing? politics of poor personal relationships with folk in other leagues? Is it fear of the unknown or being surplus to requirements or having a lesser role in a new set up than they currently do? Maybe its none of those things at all and i am just not educated enough in the matter.

Could be all or none of the above but more likely they have enough good teams in their set up and they have the ability to attract better teams due to to how well their leagues are run. And importantly good teams with ambition will want to test themselves against the best the Caley and Central have in their leagues.

 

 

 

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Outsider to amateur football but surely one step forward would be merging the amateur & welfare associations. Theres zero practical difference between the type of football they govern. Probably won't happen because blazers etc.

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In relation for LEAFA would they look at merging with Stirling and district league or would it be the borders league? 
 

I know they’d probably prefer stirling and district league but all hypothetical unless anything actually does change. 

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2 hours ago, Redondo said:

The flip side of being in the lower tiers is that u would in theory be playing against teams of a similar standard/ability which in turn would make it a more competitive league and with the possibility of possibly winning more games and challenging for trophies. 

There are always going to be bigger/better teams that is the case at all levels of the game, unfortunately the game cant be held back because potentially some teams may struggle, that is life at the end if the day.

Regards the Scottish & west comps, dont see it affecting them tbh, they will still have there appeal imo. 

I think there is definetely a opportunity for the Ammie game to step up here with what looks like the inevitable demise of the Junior game, it wouldnt happen overnight but with the proper changes in structure u could have game that is thriving in a few years. 

Do nothing and I really fear the worst long term.

Aye possibly

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31 minutes ago, The Mouth said:

Aye possibly

Only possible if the governing bodies r willing to look at change.

I only used Caley/Central as an example but I do think that has the best potential to make a massive difference in the Ammie game. 

Both leagues have some top teams and the prospect of a super league housing these teams would be imo great for our game. 

 

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Only possible if the governing bodies r willing to look at change.
I only used Caley/Central as an example but I do think that has the best potential to make a massive difference in the Ammie game. 
Both leagues have some top teams and the prospect of a super league housing these teams would be imo great for our game. 
 

I think its a great idea. If the best teams from both leagues were in a 'Super League' it would be great for the game.

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3 minutes ago, Amateur Footie Fan said:


I think its a great idea. If the best teams from both leagues were in a 'Super League' it would be great for the game.

Whether ur a coach/player or supporter u want to be involved in big games, games that really matter and get the best out of u.

I feel if this kind of thing was to move forward with a if u like tier system, u would find there would be more if these games for alot more teams regardless of there level. 

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As another outsider, I looked at the location of the top clubs and was surprised to see the amateur game has teams from the Glasgow/west central belt area in a number of separate leagues. The Ayrshire, Borders, Fife, and Lothians all have one league for each region whereas you have three overlapping, with Stirling also in there.

Last season I put the clubs in the top division on a map (sorry Oban) just to see what it looked like - would surely make sense to have a lot of these teams in the same system, especially if the eventual senior pyramid had a regionalised bottom tier covering this area.

Screenshot_2020-02-13 Scottish Amateur Football Clubs - by leagues – Google My Maps.png

Edited by Ginaro

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Not sure if theres any thruth in it but seen Oban mentioned as possibly looking at the wosfl pyramid?

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