Townsend OUT

[one nil]

Townsend should never have been appointed in place of Vern Cotter.  We’ve gone backwards since Cotters removal.

Townsend seems unable to vary his tactics for different opposition and while singing loud about team cohesion,  is

unwilling to listen to alternative voices.  Get rid before we sink to the bottom of the six nations.

[gannonball]

Whats the rugby equivalent of PnB?

Pint of Piss and Fois Gras?

[John Lambies Doos]

Townsend should never have been appointed in place of Vern Cotter.  We’ve gone backwards since Cotters removal.
Townsend seems unable to vary his tactics for different opposition and while singing loud about team cohesion,  is
unwilling to listen to alternative voices.  Get rid before we sink to the bottom of the six nations.

Cotter with Cockerill (forwards coach) would have been immense. Small margins in 6N and I think they would have got us over the line in a few more games.
GT clearly out his depth plus Hogg can't handle the pressure of captain

[GordonS]

Townsend's record is better than Cotter's, that's just a fact, even with worse injury problems. Beat Australia home and away, beat England and drew away, beat Ireland, Wales and France, and came close to beating the All Blacks. Our World Cup group was very tough and we weren't far off. In our last two games we've finished within a score of the World Cup runners-up and away to a team that, until last year, were close to number one, humped South Africa and beat New Zealand twice. 

Cotter's team and tactics were built around the Glasgow squad that Townsend built.

Some folk just don't like Townsend, he's bookish and aloof, and the prefer man's man Big Vern. But the justifications are pisspoor.

ETA It also seems like a lot of the criticism comes from folk who only watch internationals, and never saw the Glasgow Warriors team that Townsend built. If you'd been there that night in Belfast...

Edited February 10, 2020 by GordonS

[GordonS]

Oh, and international managers often take a few years to settle in. Steve Hansen did, before winning two World Cups. Warren Gatland was sacked by Ireland (partly as a result of losing at home to Scotland). Ditching Townsend now would be really premature.

Player-for-player, we're 5th in the 6 Nations by quite a distance. 

[alta-pete]

Said this at the time. The only reason Cotter got punted was because Townsend decided he was ready for the big job and,  being a long-standing and heavily invested-in SRU employee, he got the gig far too soon. 

SRU are in that inverted-lost-the-plot-heid-in-the-sand phase right now.  Crowds are (inexplicably) full, Chief exec is getting paid £1m a year, Townsend £400k and we’re achieving naff all.  
 

If Townsend doesn’t get his jotters this year, just wait 2-4 years and then there’ll be a major inquest as to where it all went wrong. 
 

And Finn Russell, for being the spoilt wee fanny that he looks like, will return as the all-conquering hero. 
 

3 years too late. 
 

oh Scotland. 

[alta-pete]

‘mon then @Grahame  Explain your thinking please?

[alta-pete]

2 minutes ago, Grahame said:

I agree with you.  

So why the reddie? 

[alta-pete]

Oh dear   

[Jaggy Snake]

During Cotter's time plenty complained that he wasn't making the most of our talent by playing "shite" rugby instead of Glasgow's (Townsend's) free flowing attacking style.

Obviously the SRU got rid of Cotter earlier than planned for the chance to keep Townsend, fearing the latter would be a success in France and be lost to Scotland for years. But you just know that the same people who moan on facebook that they should have let Townsend go to France, are the exact same people who'd have moaned the SRU didn't push the boat out to keep Townsend if Cotter had stayed on and our form wasn't radically different.

On the other hand, there's no point denying Townsend has to be under pressure at the moment. Whilst I'm very much in the camp that think Finn Russell is just being a prima donna and his actions reflect much worse on him than anyone else, there's no denying that other coaches would have handled it better than Townsend and Scotland are undeniably weaker without Finn.

Additionally, while it's fine to say we pushed them close, we have just missed an opportunity to beat Ireland away against what must be the poorest Ireland side in a good few years. We then pass up the chance to beat England where, in truely awful conditions and a low scoring game, the home team should always be favourite to grind out a win (and that's definitely something Cotter's team were more adept at than Townsend's).

On top of results, Gregor should need an up turn in performance levels in the final three games to have a chance of staying on.

[Detournement]

17 hours ago, GordonS said:

Oh, and international managers often take a few years to settle in. Steve Hansen did, before winning two World Cups. Warren Gatland was sacked by Ireland (partly as a result of losing at home to Scotland). Ditching Townsend now would be really premature.

Player-for-player, we're 5th in the 6 Nations by quite a distance. 

There is no excuse for his team selection in the RWC. Picking Taylor and Barclay indicates the job is too big for him and he can't think clearly on important decisions.

Townsend needs to realise what every Scotland rugby and football manager needs to remember. There is very little for the players to gain by playing for Scotland. It doesn't make them rich, they probably won't be successful and they are likely to be abused and disrespected by supporters. If you are manager of England or Germany or France then you can make demands because playing for those nations brings rewards but a Scotland manager has to be accomodating. 

The statement Townsend put out yesterday seemed like the kind of guff that a private school rugby coach would come out with. It's not about personal growth or a positive environment it's about results. He needs two wins. 

 

 

[GordonS]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

There is no excuse for his team selection in the RWC. Picking Taylor and Barclay indicates the job is too big for him and he can't think clearly on important decisions.

I think you're completely wrong, especially on Barclay. I don't think your opinion says much about your knowledge of the game.

Quote

Townsend needs to realise what every Scotland rugby and football manager needs to remember. There is very little for the players to gain by playing for Scotland. It doesn't make them rich, they probably won't be successful and they are likely to be abused and disrespected by supporters. If you are manager of England or Germany or France then you can make demands because playing for those nations brings rewards but a Scotland manager has to be accomodating. 

This is true of football, but not in rugby.

Quote

The statement Townsend put out yesterday seemed like the kind of guff that a private school rugby coach would come out with. It's not about personal growth or a positive environment it's about results. He needs two wins. 

I think you're confirming what I said about it being personal, and about what kind of personalities you like and don't like.

I'm certain most of the squad, especially the senior players, are behind Townsend on this. He needs to think of the group, not one player. You don't make different rules for the mercurial bevvy merchant.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, GordonS said:

I think you're completely wrong, especially on Barclay. I don't think your opinion says much about your knowledge of the game.

This is true of football, but not in rugby.

I think you're confirming what I said about it being personal, and about what kind of personalities you like and don't like.

I'm certain most of the squad, especially the senior players, are behind Townsend on this. He needs to think of the group, not one player. You don't make different rules for the mercurial bevvy merchant.

Barclay was already showing signs of physical decline before his Achilles injury. He was completely blown away by Leinster in the CC semi a few weeks before the injury. After coming back he was clearly in decline and shouldn't have been starting which is why he was dropped after the Ireland game. 

It's the same in rugby which is why Russell and R Gray are currently on hiatus and Hines and Barclay have excluded themselves in the recent past. It's obviously different for SRU contracted players. 

Russell didn't need different rules. Do you think Glasgow and Edinburgh players were in camp 6 hours after their games that weekend? Russell obviously isn't blameless but Townsend is the one paid handsomely to get a winning Scotland team on the pitch and it doesn't look like he made much effort with Russell prior to this tournament. 

Someone should remind Gregor that he gave the SRU an ultimatum to give him Cotter's job or he was leaving Scotland. What's good for the goose. 

 

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Townsend's record is better than Cotter's, that's just a fact, even with worse injury problems. Beat Australia home and away, beat England and drew away, beat Ireland, Wales and France, and came close to beating the All Blacks. Our World Cup group was very tough and we weren't far off. In our last two games we've finished within a score of the World Cup runners-up and away to a team that, until last year, were close to number one, humped South Africa and beat New Zealand twice. 
Cotter's team and tactics were built around the Glasgow squad that Townsend built.
Some folk just don't like Townsend, he's bookish and aloof, and the prefer man's man Big Vern. But the justifications are pisspoor.
ETA It also seems like a lot of the criticism comes from folk who only watch internationals, and never saw the Glasgow Warriors team that Townsend built. If you'd been there that night in Belfast...

Agree to disagree, Townsends teams are soft and roll over. It really is embarrassing bringing Belfast up, one thing achieved in 20 yrs and Leone deserved a lot of credit for that.

[invergowrie arab]

Scotland simply don't have the players to consistently play the rugby Townsend sees in his head and he can't change it.

Defensively been a disgrace for the past two years too. 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I assume everyone has moderated their opinions slightly in the wake of fresh evidence

[peasy23]

I assume everyone has moderated their opinions slightly in the wake of fresh evidence

Certainly a much better performance yesterday, forwards fronted up big time and the defence was much more cohesive. Will reserve judgement until after the Cardiff match, to see if we turn up away from home for a change.

[Detournement]

52 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

I assume everyone has moderated their opinions slightly in the wake of fresh evidence

I'd still like to see us score a try versus 15 Tier One players. 

Townsend has switched to the Joe Schmidt formula. I'm not sure that level of kicking on first phase will serve us well in the future. 

[John Lambies Doos]

I assume everyone has moderated their opinions slightly in the wake of fresh evidence

Not at all, the acid test will be Cardiff. If we get blown away there he needs to walk.