Livingston v St Mirren - 12/02/2020

[Cptn Hooch]

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

To counter that; if you want to perform a pub crawl in Livingston you need to be ####ing fit! Certainly lots of opportunity to sober up between pubs.

As a general point the main roads around Livi look okay at the moment but the footpaths are still a mess - hopefully the council will get their finger out and get them cleared and gritted ahead of the game.

WLYF community activities on the pitch were cancelled last night which has given me there fear for tonight. Need a good result tonight before going to Ibrox and Easter road followed by Celtic at the Spaghettihad

[Billy Jean King]

10 hours ago, Lex said:

Our main issue going into this game is that Livingston have a better team than us. As the league table shows.

 

Doesn’t mean we will lose, of course. Football is a funny old game.

 

Certainly take a point though.

 

One of Renfrewshire’s finest sons had the surname Wallace. So I guess Ross will be a good signing for us. Start him on that basis.

Stattos... Have St Mirren had a Wallace play for us before..?

By all reports Wallace is a fair bit away from starting fitness wise.

[LIVIFOREVER]

17 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Away to Livi always gives me the fear.

Was just thinking about Livingston and what's gone on there since they were the original Scottish football story of small club bankrolling themselves to success.

To all intents and purposes, they really should have been dead and buried at the point where they were shunted from the first division down to the third with administration after having the Italian nutters running the show. They had been an absolute basketcase for years - the league cup win, top flight football, 3rd place finish and European football was a distant memory that was destined to be a footnote next to Gretna.

All the usual jibes about crowds, plastic pitches and Martindale aside, the fact that they've pushed back up through the leagues from nothing and become one of the best sides in the country is pretty big testament to the way the club is now run and deserves a lot more respect than it probably gets.

 

Hope we pump the c***s tomorrow though.

Watched that John Ward interview again recently on YouTube, tells a pretty grim story of the state we were in when he got involved, Livi 5 as big a mess as they ended up being, saved our arses after Massone, and the ghost of Neil Rankine still haunts the club, so we aren't free and clear yet, but by feck we've gone through some transformation the last few years, both on and off the pitch.  

[houston_bud]

23 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

St. Mirren fans outraged at £25 when they charge £22 is a laugh. 

I suppose people have a limit somewhere though, if we're happy to pay £25 then why not £28, if £28 why not £30? I understand that clubs set their prices for the season and generally don't deviate from that but £25 for a midweek game when the weather is dreadful isn't really enticing. 

I have some sympathy with Livingston, and indeed all the smaller clubs, as the vast majority of their income comes from gate receipts and the clubs all operate on pretty tight budgets. If they reduce it to £20 would the number of people going increase that much to offset the cheaper tickets? I'm unsure.

That said fans are entitled to spend their money however they want and you'd imagine there must be a ceiling at some point. I remember being at Almondvale in 99/00 when we won the first division. Folk were outraged that Livi were charging £12 to get in, I remember it because it was also highlighted in the fanzine SQ. So it's more than doubled in 20 years, albeit we are an a division higher. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

It's a pity the smaller clubs who would be classed as lower category games against one another out of 3  groups, Celtic & The Rangers being top,  then Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen being next, couldn't get together and set up an away season ticket deal that would give all their fans a saving to get in for say £20 against one another.

I'm sure there would be a bigger amount sold for away games against how much you'd save on turning up to pay at the gate if you miss out on getting one. 

[Durnford]

15 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

I suppose people have a limit somewhere though, if we're happy to pay £25 then why not £28, if £28 why not £30? I understand that clubs set their prices for the season and generally don't deviate from that but £25 for a midweek game when the weather is dreadful isn't really enticing. 

I have some sympathy with Livingston, and indeed all the smaller clubs, as the vast majority of their income comes from gate receipts and the clubs all operate on pretty tight budgets. If they reduce it to £20 would the number of people going increase that much to offset the cheaper tickets? I'm unsure.

That said fans are entitled to spend their money however they want and you'd imagine there must be a ceiling at some point. I remember being at Almondvale in 99/00 when we won the first division. Folk were outraged that Livi were charging £12 to get in, I remember it because it was also highlighted in the fanzine SQ. So it's more than doubled in 20 years, albeit we are an a division higher. 

Good post - to be honest, for the small home gate we now get (made up of hardened supporters who have been through all of the shenanigans over the past 20 years and are still here) we have to try and maximise revenue wherever we can. It actually irritates quite a few that the clubs marketing isn't particularly proactive. So often we miss out on potential PATG passers by through not advertising home games locally.

I appreciate the current PATG price is putting a fair number of people off. Its been pointed out that for the price of two adults you could take the whole family to the Brewers Fayre for Sunday lunch with a few drinks or similar. That being said we are also the lowest wage payers in the league (by some margin).

With regard to your point about if someone's prepared to pay £25 would they be prepared to pay £28; obviously this falls into a sort of law of diminishing returns. The more you put up prices; the lower your gates meaning that you have to put prices up again. The thing is we have a 10k seater stadium but; other than for maybe three teams we never fill more than half of it and, for the majority of games, rarely get over 3k. A couple of seasons back we tried substantially reducing prices for a few select games (less than half price as far as I recall) but unfortunately this had little or no impact on the actual gate. Some argued that we needed to try it for a longer period before we could see a marked improvement but I think the Board were too nervous about needing to balance the books. I hate seeing our stadium two thirds empty (almost as much as I hate seeing it full with the old firm but that's another issue); it also concerns me that we aren't seeing as many "next generation supporters" coming to the games. With so many other options; live football on TV from the EPL etc. cheep cinema tickets etc. Its getting more and more difficult to encourage kids on the merits of sitting in a freezing All-Seater stadium on a baltic Wednesday night in February irrespective of price.

  There are very few now that wouldn't doubt that we are firmly in the realm of being a selling club. Previously we only signed up player for the season; more recently players have been getting 2+ year contracts. Or strategy now seems to be to search the divisions for players that could make the "step up" or, for want of a better description, rejects from Project Brave who have a point to prove.

[pozbaird]

The setting of a £12 charge for the cup replay at Motherwell is surely a factor in determining tonight’s visiting attendance. The first game at our place was a lively affair, in awful conditions. Big Motherwell support, ‘up for the cup’. The Fir Park replay is a far more appealing prospect, at a more appealing price, played on a far more appealing surface. Fair do’s to any Saints fan who shells out for both tonight’s game and the cup replay.

[spiggle]

6 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

The setting of a £12 charge for the cup replay at Motherwell is surely a factor in determining tonight’s visiting attendance. The first game at our place was a lively affair, in awful conditions. Big Motherwell support, ‘up for the cup’. The Fir Park replay is a far more appealing prospect, at a more appealing price, played on a far more appealing surface. Fair do’s to any Saints fan who shells out for both tonight’s game and the cup replay.

And yet it wasn't that long ago that Motherwell were fined for the state of their grass pitch. I believe tattie field was used to describe it.

For anyone who wants a go at our pitch, go and watch the Livi v Motherwell game on the 1st February and you'll see us play some gorgeous football on a surface that we've been told is dangerous and football can't be played on it.

As for the pricing, it would be great if we could reduce the prices but as has been pointed out, it's our main source of income and on a night like tonight, halving the price, won't entice many more fans out.

[pozbaird]

12 minutes ago, spiggle said:

And yet it wasn't that long ago that Motherwell were fined for the state of their grass pitch. I believe tattie field was used to describe it.

For anyone who wants a go at our pitch, go and watch the Livi v Motherwell game on the 1st February and you'll see us play some gorgeous football on a surface that we've been told is dangerous and football can't be played on it.

As for the pricing, it would be great if we could reduce the prices but as has been pointed out, it's our main source of income and on a night like tonight, halving the price, won't entice many more fans out.

I stand by my statement. £12 for a cup game at Fir Park is a more appealing prospect than £25 for tonight’s game. If you were a St Mirren fan, would you agree or disagree.

[crispy]

51 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

It's a pity the smaller clubs who would be classed as lower category games against one another out of 3  groups, Celtic & The Rangers being top,  then Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen being next, couldn't get together and set up an away season ticket deal that would give all their fans a saving to get in for say £20 against one another.

I'd also thought about an away season ticket being a great shout. For us, the loss of ~6,000*£5 from an Old Firm visit is the difference of a player salary, I suppose. 

15 minutes ago, spiggle said:

As for the pricing, it would be great if we could reduce the prices but as has been pointed out, it's our main source of income and on a night like tonight, halving the price, won't entice many more fans out.

My mate was unable to make a game and was unable to give his season ticket away for a game. A free ticket. This is not uncommon. And, yes, he does have pals

Also, I agree that £12 for a cup game at Fir Park is a more appealing prospect than £25 for tonight’s game.

Edited February 12, 2020 by crispy

[AllyM]

1 hour ago, houston_bud said:

Folk were outraged that Livi were charging £12 to get in, I remember it because it was also highlighted in the fanzine SQ. So it's more than doubled in 20 years, albeit we are an a division higher. 

You would expect about a doubling every 20 years just due to inflation, so it is not that far off. However, to put it another way, it is quite understandable that my fellow buddies remain as outraged now as they were 20 years ago.

[Menga Bus]

Just now, crispy said:

I'd also thought about an away season ticket being a great shout. For us, the loss of ~6,000*£5 from an Old Firm visit is the difference of a player salary, I suppose. 

Yeah for a club of our size with at least 3 old firm visits in a season, losing 90k really isn’t affordable straight away. Perhaps a new limit each season and then gradually reduced prices to £20 over the next few years. £25 then £23 then £20 for instance.

I hate the high prices, not staying in livi means extra costs for every home and away game, can always sympathise with away fans. Then trips away to rangers and Celtic where a defeat is expected it’s very difficult to justify paying for that full day out. Even tynecastle is pushing it at £28 or whatever it is now

[Munoz]

7 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

I stand by my statement. £12 for a cup game at Fir Park is a more appealing prospect than £25 for tonight’s game. If you were a St Mirren fan, would you agree or disagree.

I've prioritised and that is exactly what I'm doing.  

[crispy]

All being said, I'm starting to look forward to the game now. 

McCrorie

McMillan Brown Guthrie TS

Bartley ??

Lawless Pittman Robinson

Dykes

 

I wonder how fit Devlin is now? Sibbald/Jacobs/Crawford I'm unsure of. I suspect Sibbald will get the nod. Lawson not far off a place, too. It's a shame the Squid is out for the season (on Livi thread) as I like him as a player.

Edited February 12, 2020 by crispy

[Cptn Hooch]

9 minutes ago, crispy said:

All being said, I'm starting to look forward to the game now. 

McCrorie

McMillan Brown Guthrie TS

Bartley ??

Lawless Pittman Robinson

Dykes

 

I wonder how fit Devlin is now? Sibbald/Jacobs/Crawford I'm unsure of. I suspect Sibbald will get the nod. Lawson not far off a place, too. It's a shame the Squid is out for the season (on Livi thread) as I like him as a player.

Wonder how far Dolly is off a start...sounds like he's looked quite a handful when he's come on in the last few games. As fantastic a player as Lawless is, he's been off his usual form for a few games now too so wouldn't be surprised to see Gary switch things up.

 

McCrorie

McMillan Brown Guthrie T-S (for me the back line picks itself at the moment)

Bartley Jacobs

Menga Pittman Souda

Dykes

 

Souda caused St Mirren plenty of problems in the last game before fading out and Menga's direct running alongside Dykes sounds like an exciting prospect. Wee Lawless to come off the bench is a fantastic option to have too.

[spiggle]

1 hour ago, Cptn Hooch said:

Wonder how far Dolly is off a start...sounds like he's looked quite a handful when he's come on in the last few games. As fantastic a player as Lawless is, he's been off his usual form for a few games now too so wouldn't be surprised to see Gary switch things up.

 

McCrorie

McMillan Brown Guthrie T-S (for me the back line picks itself at the moment)

Bartley Jacobs

Menga Pittman Souda

Dykes

 

Souda caused St Mirren plenty of problems in the last game before fading out and Menga's direct running alongside Dykes sounds like an exciting prospect. Wee Lawless to come off the bench is a fantastic option to have too.

I like this line up and Lawless has played a lot and could do with a rest. You can assume that the Mengabus won't have more than 60 minutes in him. I like the idea of Keaghan in midfield. As well as Sibbs has played, sometimes you just need Keaghan's drive to push the team forward

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, crispy said:

I'd also thought about an away season ticket being a great shout. For us, the loss of ~6,000*£5 from an Old Firm visit is the difference of a player salary, I suppose. 

My mate was unable to make a game and was unable to give his season ticket away for a game. A free ticket. This is not uncommon. And, yes, he does have pals

Also, I agree that £12 for a cup game at Fir Park is a more appealing prospect than £25 for tonight’s game.

 

2 hours ago, Menga Bus said:

Yeah for a club of our size with at least 3 old firm visits in a season, losing 90k really isn’t affordable straight away. Perhaps a new limit each season and then gradually reduced prices to £20 over the next few years. £25 then £23 then £20 for instance.

I hate the high prices, not staying in livi means extra costs for every home and away game, can always sympathise with away fans. Then trips away to rangers and Celtic where a defeat is expected it’s very difficult to justify paying for that full day out. Even tynecastle is pushing it at £28 or whatever it is now

Yeah that's why I suggested only having it for cat C games, so the likes of Celtic, The Rangers, Hearts, Hibs & Aberdeen wouldn't be included. There used to be a difference in pricing between Cat A & B, and C games, so I don't think there would be an issue there, you just can't make the PaTG different between home and away fans for individual games, afaik anyway. Obv ST aren't incl in that. The clubs would have to agree to it between themselves but I think it would work, and be a great sell to the fans that regularly travel to away games, might also pick up some interest for fans that pick and choose away games due to cost, travel etc.

[Durnford]

seem to recall that bizarre scheme when we offered free entry to season ticket holders of other teams (excluding the actual team we were playing I believe).

The Idea was that we could persuade Hearts and Hibs supporters to come and support the Lions when they were playing away. As far as I am aware we never had any takers.

[EdinburghLivi]

6 hours ago, houston_bud said:

I suppose people have a limit somewhere though, if we're happy to pay £25 then why not £28, if £28 why not £30? I understand that clubs set their prices for the season and generally don't deviate from that but £25 for a midweek game when the weather is dreadful isn't really enticing. 

I have some sympathy with Livingston, and indeed all the smaller clubs, as the vast majority of their income comes from gate receipts and the clubs all operate on pretty tight budgets. If they reduce it to £20 would the number of people going increase that much to offset the cheaper tickets? I'm unsure.

That said fans are entitled to spend their money however they want and you'd imagine there must be a ceiling at some point. I remember being at Almondvale in 99/00 when we won the first division. Folk were outraged that Livi were charging £12 to get in, I remember it because it was also highlighted in the fanzine SQ. So it's more than doubled in 20 years, albeit we are an a division higher. 

Largely agree with your post. I have already said that I think £25 is the upper limit to what I think is reasonable but understand that other people (particularly those with families) might take a different view on that. 

I am just a bit mystified as to why a lot of St. Mirren fans 1) are seemingly shocked at this price when they paid it earlier in the season; 2) have taken this opportunity to organise a 'boycott', as if Livingston are ahead of the pack in taking the piss out of away fans. If previous campaigns have been made for away games at Rangers, Celtic or Hearts, please excuse my ignorance.

Edited February 12, 2020 by EdinburghLivi

[ATLIS]

Hope we announce that because of their cheek, and protests the entry fee has been increased to £30.

Last few seasons I started to like St Mirren and the way they went about things. Good set of fans and seemed reasonable. All out the window now, pump this mob and send them down. Up the Hamilton #DiddyAlliance 

Edited February 12, 2020 by ATLIS