welshbairn Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: The flu vaccine cant prevent coronavirus. Surely you know that? The flu vaccine inoculates against multiple strains of viruses, Covid19 will probably be added to the cocktail eventually. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: In addition to the flu vaccine that I already take? From my understanding the flu jab doesn't do any good on Covid-19? So would you take a specific vaccine if made available to you? Edited March 30, 2020 by jagfox99 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Cole Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said: 21 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: A hospital doctor in the Spanish city of Malaga writes on Twitter that people are currently more likely to die from panic and systemic collapse than from the virus. The hospital is being overrun by people with colds, flu and possibly Covid19 and doctors have lost control. Which is why testing is vital. In Switzerland, some emergency units are already overloaded simply because of the large number of people who want to be tested. This points to an additional psychological and logistical component of the current situation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Cole Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jagfox99 said: From my understanding the flu jab doesn't do any good on Covid-19? So would you take a specific vaccine if made available to you? That’s my understanding too. And? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: But they aren’t overflowing with coronavirus patients and they never will be That's the spirit, just keep up with the Government advice, stay home as much as possible, and we should all pull through this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: That’s my understanding too. And? would you take a specific vaccine if made available to you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 Sweden and Holland are trying very different approaches to the rest of the Europe and further across the world. If it wasn't being judged on people dying it would be fascinating to look back on in a year or two to see which approach works best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremiah Cole Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Just now, jagfox99 said: would you take a specific vaccine if made available to you? Yes, as I already do with the flu jab. as pointed out, it’ll just be 1 jab in any case 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, MixuFixit said: 1. It's no great hardship & 6 months is not a long time. 'No great hardship' is a bold call to make when we haven't even completed seven full days of a lockdown yet. Six months is an unimaginably long period of near total social and economic disruption compared to this. And in case you've forgotten, the absolutely huge government expenditure program that is keeping people's businesses and jobs on hiatus right now only covers three months and not six. There's no guarantee that the government can pull the same trick on the financial markets twice (at least not while tanking the value of sterling in the process), while doubling the bill that everyone will have to pay once this is over. And they'd most likely be dealing with significant levels of civil disobedience after two-three months of a total shutdown as well. The cold hard reality of the matter is that a rational cost-benefit analysis will be needed in a month's time, two month's time etc., to determine which social and economic restrictions should be lifted despite the fact that some more people might pick up the virus. I suspect that as soon as the government is highly confident that total deaths can be kept to something sane - perhaps that 20k figure mentioned by spokespeople at various times - then restrictions will be gradually removed and businesses encouraged to start up again. Edited March 30, 2020 by vikingTON 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 42 minutes ago, MixuFixit said: I'm not really seeing it like that. I'm seeing it as people deciding they know better and doing things that aren't essential and, I suppose, looking for people to agree with them here to validate their own sense of control over their situation. But we don't have control and every "wee minor thing with hardly any chance of spreading anything" multiplied daily by billions of individual actions will lead to a non-trivial number of people losing their lives needlessly. When folk are pointing this out they're getting angry and defensive. It's the same sort of psychology with e.g. tory policy and poor people dying, when you suggest to a tory voter that they're in some way culpable they react furiously and stress how much of a nice person they are, helping their neighbours out and so on. To be honest that just reads like 'I'm right and when I simply point out to people that I'm right and they're wrong and responsible for the deaths of poor people they get angry. What is that all about?' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, ICTChris said: Sweden and Holland are trying very different approaches to the rest of the Europe and further across the world. If it wasn't being judged on people dying it would be fascinating to look back on in a year or two to see which approach works best. They're giving pretty much the same advice as everyone else, it's mostly just the difference with enforcement and trusting people to do the right thing to reduce transmission. Here's the Dutch advice. https://www.government.nl/topics/coronavirus-covid-19/tackling-new-coronavirus-in-the-netherlands 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Here is a new Imperial College paper on the outbreak. https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-Europe-estimates-and-NPI-impact-30-03-2020.pdf They estimate that the 'true' infection rate is as follows Country % of total population infected (mean [95% credible interval]) Austria 1.1% [0.36%-3.1%] Belgium 3.7% [1.3%-9.7%] Denmark 1.1% [0.40%-3.1%] France 3.0% [1.1%-7.4%] Germany 0.72% [0.28%-1.8%] Italy 9.8% [3.2%-26%] Norway 0.41% [0.09%-1.2%] Spain 15% [3.7%-41%] Sweden 3.1% [0.85%-8.4%] Switzerland 3.2% [1.3%-7.6%] United Kingdom 2.7% [1.2%-5.4%] Edited March 30, 2020 by ICTChris 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Calder Lion Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: On the contrary, I am still able to think for myself and try to get the facts out there. The more that the truth gets out there, the more people will begin to hold the politicians to account. You may be happy living in a fascist police state but I am most certainly not. "Fascist police state" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said: Spain have restricted car use to sole occupants for the last week with police pulling over cars and issuing fines. The purpose is to limit travel to the absolute minimum. Two people doing something that can be done by one isn't the absolute minimum. We've got far too used to people claiming to be special little flowers that the rules don't apply to in this country. Get some Spanish cops in to deliver some pie-kicking I say. My wife is regarded as an essential worker. She can’t drive. I hardly think I am alone in this scenario so I think your post should be at least caveated. Spanish police will not be fining every driver who has more than one person in the car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Folk on here still thinking this is a short term thing that doesn’t really affect them and well all be back to normal by June? Spoiler 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said: The Trevor Kavanagh article was very well written and made some excellent points. In Scotland I truly believe more people will die from stress/suicide/not getting to routine appointments or operations, than from coronavirus. I see Sturgeon has said all breast cancer and bowel cancer screenings will stop for 3 months! Put a timeframe on it and how much would you like to bet? -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: That is clearly different. I meant 2 adults going in together - some shops (Asda for example) still allowing it. What about an adult who is caring for an adult with a disability? Why is it different that you want only one adult but as many children? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 57 minutes ago, FuzzyBear said: Universities putting a plan in place for no students on campus until January. Which ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainspotter Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, virginton said: And they'd most likely be dealing with significant levels of civil disobedience after two-three months of a total shutdown as well. I'd be hugely surprised if some level of disobedience hasn't kicked in after a matter of weeks rather than months. The first day that the temperature is forecast to hit 15 degrees plus is going to see pre-arranged gatherings in any available open space. With carry-outs naturally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A.F.C Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jeremiah Cole said: In Switzerland, some emergency units are already overloaded simply because of the large number of people who want to be tested. This points to an additional psychological and logistical component of the current situation. Testing should be done at home or away from the hospitals, ideally near a doctors surgery or facilitated by trained people like the army. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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