Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[scottsdad]

41 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The government owning up to large numbers of people presenting with myocarditis and pericarditis post vaccination. Will the media cover it?

The link above says that in 2017 the estimated number of cases of myocarditis in the UK were roughly 2000 total. The Pfizer vaccination has resulted in a case of myocarditis in 1 per 100,000 doses. Moderna 3.6 per 100,000. This is only with 10 days of vaccination and there is no data provided to identify at risk age groups. 

 

 

Quote

As of 17 November 2021, the overall reporting rate across all age groups for myocarditis following vaccination with the Pfizer vaccine is 10 per million doses; for pericarditis, it’s 7 per million doses. For Moderna, the overall reporting rate for myocarditis is 36 per million doses; for pericarditis, it’s 21 per million doses.

Edited to add: quick game of spot the difference.

You said "The link above says that in 2017 the estimated number of cases of myocarditis in the UK were roughly 2000 total.". 

The report said: "In 2017, it was estimated that there were about 2,000 hospital admissions for myocarditis."

Edited December 2, 2021 by scottsdad

[Suspect Device]

12 minutes ago, Ross. said:

How many has the NHS lost as a result of Brexit?

NHS staff from overseas: statistics - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

Hard to tell apparently (These figures are for England only)

Quote

Because data coverage of NHS nationality data has improved over time, comparisons of the number of EU staff in the NHS over time should be made only with caution. In June 2016 there were 89,546 staff with unknown nationality. That has now decreased to 40,166 (a fall of over half) while the total number of staff employed by the NHS has increased.

This means that some apparent increases in staff numbers for nationalities and nationality groups are likely to be due to improved data coverage rather than genuine increases.

In other words: because a greater proportion of NHS staff now have a nationality recorded, we would expect to see increases in the recorded number of staff with a given nationality, even if there were no genuine changes in the actual number of staff with that nationality.

In June 2016 there were 58,698 staff with recorded EU nationality, and in January there were over 70,660. But to present this as the full story would be misleading, because we know that there are almost 50,000 more staff for whom nationality is known now than in 2016.

 

[Detournement]

14 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Edited to add: quick game of spot the difference.

You said "The link above says that in 2017 the estimated number of cases of myocarditis in the UK were roughly 2000 total.". 

The report said: "In 2017, it was estimated that there were about 2,000 hospital admissions for myocarditis."

So what? All these cases were diagnosed in hospital as well.

[Detournement]

27 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Why do you give the per capita rates crossed with the total number rather than keeping both in the same format to allow means for comparison?

 

It's not the per capita it's per vaccine dose within 10 days. 

I thought it was easy enough to figure out roughly from the estimate. 2000/65m is 3 per 100,000 over the entire year. 

[superbigal]

Myocarditis is hardly a problem.  Go and tell us how many have died of it that had a vaccine in the preceding 10 days.

[scottsdad]

11 minutes ago, Detournement said:

So what? All these cases were diagnosed in hospital as well.

Simply untrue. 

[Ross.]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's not the per capita it's per vaccine dose within 10 days. 

I thought it was easy enough to figure out roughly from the estimate. 2000/65m is 3 per 100,000 over the entire year. 

Bad use of language in my post, will hold my hands up to that. I still don't understand why you didn't simply put everything in the same format to allow a better comparison.

The 2000/65m is overly simplistic for what it's worth. It doesn't account for people who have been in more than once, and fails to account for people who were hospitalised for other reasons and were then diagnosed. Either could swing the rate significantly.

I think right now it would be worth comparing the rates of myocarditis in unvaccinated people who have had covid, versus people who have been vaccinated. I have no idea if those figures would be available at this stage, but given respiratory illnesses can cause that sort of thing anyway, it would be worth seeing how much more risk is associated with one or the other.

[scottsdad]

 

[Rugster]

48 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Why do you give the per capita rates crossed with the total number rather than keeping both in the same format to allow means for comparison?

 

So he can try to spin it to support his anti vaccine stance. 

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, superbigal said:

Myocarditis is hardly a problem.  Go and tell us how many have died of it that had a vaccine in the preceding 10 days.

And Covid is less of a problem for healthy people under 50.

There are no figures for vaccine related deaths within the past 10 days.

There are figures for all cause mortality split into unvaccinated, 1 dose, 2 dose but the categories are misleading as within 14 days of a 1st dose counts as unvaccinated and within 14 days of the second dose is counted as one dose. The one dose category has been multiple times higher than the other two all year.

[Todd_is_God]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

How is anyone "excluded from society" when they can take an LFT and go anywhere they want?

@charger29 would be in trouble here...

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, Rugster said:

So he can try to spin it to support his anti vaccine stance. 

To give it in the same format you would need to correct the 10 days Vs 365 days which is easy enough but correcting vaccine doses Vs the entire UK population isn't possible to do accurately without more data. 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

@charger29 would be in trouble here...

We should ask him if he feels excluded from society.

[Detournement]

9 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

 

Quite a few countries seem to have released this data in sync today. 

I'm going to the gym now but I'll have a look later to see if he is being honest about the increase or conflating 10 days with a years data. 

[welshbairn]

Quote

It is important to note that Covid-19 also causes myocarditis, with an estimated 28% of hospitalised patients showing signs of heart muscle injury. The risk of the condition is around 16 times higher in Covid-19 patients than in the uninfected, with inpatient visits for myocarditis 42% higher last year compared with 2019. In addition, the risk of myocarditis is 37 times higher for children with Covid-19 than in their uninfected peers. These rates indicate that the small risks of myocarditis from vaccination are still outweighed by the risks of Covid-19.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/myocarditis-risks-covid-19-vaccines/

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/myocarditis-risks-covid-19-vaccines/

Aye but quickly looking at the data from Israel the vast majority of the cases were in males aged 16-39 who are at effectively zero risk of being hospitalised from Covid. 

[Todd_is_God]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

We should ask him if he feels excluded from society.

Well no, we don't need to.

If he (or someone else in a similar situation) chose not to take whatever the latest covid jag was then they, contrary to your latest proclamation, could not "take an LFT and go anywhere they want"

Another L to sit on your massively overflowing mantlepiece then.

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Well no, we don't need to.

If he (or someone else in a similar situation) chose not to take whatever the latest covid jag was then they, contrary to your latest proclamation, could not "take an LFT and go anywhere they want"

Another L to sit on your massively overflowing mantlepiece then.

Good point. Instead of the LFT he also has the vaccination option to relieve him of being EXCLUDED FROM SOCIETY.

Edited December 2, 2021 by welshbairn

[charger29]

We should ask him if he feels excluded from society.

I do. Financial compensation seems appropriate.

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Good point. Instead of the LFT he also has the vaccination option to relieve him of being EXCLUDED FROM SOCIETY.

Welshy in goalpost shifting shocker.

An utter mess of a simp.