Michael W Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 15 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: I was about to edit my post to remove my remark on him being a right wing commentator. However, his interpretation of statistics is exactly that. An interpretation. He's fairly obviously a statistician who believes in a certain outcome.....in this case, that all the 'experts' are wrong.....and is twisting statistics to suit his preffered outcome. My question to you is, if he is so absolutely certain that he is right, why aren't the powers that be using him ? Why don't the powers that be say....'wow, this guy has proved to us something that is undeniable, and we should follow his advice to the letter' ? I suppose I'm asking, why is it that he is correct, and a huge number of medical experts are wrong ? I don't think he's saying the experts are wrong here per se; indeed his own conclusion is there *is* a benefit to them, just nowhere near what the Guardian article is claiming and that the article is a poor one. It is important to call out false information. All I see from him is pretty dispassionate analysis of statistics, whether that be the effects of vaccination/boosters or how steeply cases in a certain country are rising. The FT's work on excess deaths has also been excellent. Whilst it's fair to point out Burn-Murdoch isn't a medic, medics equally are not statisticians or data scientists and both have a part to play. The data he uses ultimately shows whether the experts have been correct, and the extent they have been correct. Have lockdown measures worked, are boosters doing what they're meant to etc. He's not an advocate for restrictions/removing restrictions et. ,so.by that measure I don't think his own pandemic viewpoints have been either right or wrong, as all.he does is present the picture as it is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 27 minutes ago, welshbairn said: He picked one non verified study only available as a preprint for his 10% figure. Even if they were only 10% effective, that would make them worth wearing on a crowded train imo. P.S. He's got a nice graphic showing why even vaccines that aren't 100% effective are worthwhile. The 10% figure is from the below. It's from two randomised trials - one that is acknowledged as being very small and the other being the Bangladesh study that was discussed several hundred pages back in here. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2729 The 53% figure the Guardian went with is referenced too within there and the limitations of that. Interestingly the article acknowledges surprise about the effect of handwashing, albeit subject to the same limitations. I do like that graph, btw! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 13 hours ago, scottsdad said: Just 12 hours to go till Bob Mahelp's weekly wine-fuelled Thursday Covid thread rant. Clockwork. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elixir Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, btb said: No particular desire to intrude on your feud with @superbigal but in this case he was replying to a specific claim by @Todd_is_God that there had been "Another huge crash in week on week daily figures". 2 hours ago, Wee Bully said: Don’t be a Simp with your facts and the like! Err, in Scotland, m8s. Cases were lower again week-on-week despite including 900 which were backdated over the past month, with positivity down to 7.5%. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 hours ago, btb said: No particular desire to intrude on your feud with @superbigal but in this case he was replying to a specific claim by @Todd_is_God that there had been "Another huge crash in week on week daily figures". And there has been. The arse has fallen out the figures up here so quickly that even shovelling 700 historic cases onto a single day still left the daily reported figure lower than last week. For someone who posted daily statistics in great detail for months, @superbigal has shown an astonishing lack of awareness of them over the last wee while. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, btb said: Yeah but that's TiG was talking about a UK apple and irrelevant to the Scottish orange you're trying to muddy the waters with.... Was I? Given I posted just after the Scottish figures were released (and hours before the UK figures were) it should be obvious what figures I was referring to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, CheeseBurger said: If people want to live in terror of a virus that will likely never kill them while being continuously shafted by government policy as they're stripped of every last right, then that's up to them. Let the rest of us brave folk get on with our lives in the knowledge that we're thousands of times more likely to be struck by lightening or hit by a car. Who's stopping you? And from doing what? Edited November 18, 2021 by welshbairn -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 1 minute ago, CheeseBurger said: Covid passports and licences are becoming a very real thing now. Young people are being told to prove they've been double vaccinated before they can go anywhere that 80+ year old's generally don't frequent. Despite vaccinated people still contracting and passing the virus on regardless. It's purely becoming a system of control now and anybody who still can't see this is quite simply delusional. Have you refused a vaccine? If so every pub and nearly every football ground is still open to you, at least until midnight. It's not the Spanish Inquisition, and it's totally within your liberty and with no cost to sort it out. Why wouldn't you? -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 13 hours ago, Michael W said: I was at a vaccine passport venue here yesterday. They are not mandatory in England, naturally, but venues can choose to operate them. I downloaded the PDF in case my app didn't work whilst I was there. What a complete and utter waste of time - cursory glance at a QR code and that was it. Could've been anyone's QR code, could also have been any fucking random QR code I found on the Internet. Proof of vaccine or negative LFT were the guidelines, with anyone that didn't have either of these asked to identify themselves so they can use alternative means. By this I assume they write their name and phone number in a book, which is also valueless. What are they supposed to do with that, exactly? Phone them if someone who had been and probably never went near them tests positive? Still, never mind. ✔ Venue operator cares Will definitely prevent transmission I felt safer Any place I've been that asks for proof has absolutely half-arsed it on entry. Even the WHP (which is run by Andy Burnham's best mate) has the guys checking passports miles away from where you're ID'd and none of them have scanners. It's all a pantomime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Todd_is_God said: Was I? Given I posted just after the Scottish figures were released (and hours before the UK figures were) it should be obvious what figures I was referring to. And that post has now been deleted by @btb. Yet another hilarious climbdown after jumping in two footed. @superbigal not even bothering to climbdown, just ignoring the complete arse he’s made of it entirely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 19, 2021 Author Share Posted November 19, 2021 Right wing journalist John Burn-Murdoch is a new one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 9 hours ago, welshbairn said: Not sure where you got the 10% figure from. What I'm getting is that there isn't enough data yet, research has been concentrated in other areas. https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302 Just as well we have a much better natural experiment going on in the UK since July, which comprehensively proves that face coverings alone make hee-haw difference between constituent nations. We really don't need a rogue comparison between the lifestyle and healthcare systems of California v Alabama in the US then to conclude that 'masks work'. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonHMFC Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 On 15/11/2021 at 14:50, LondonHMFC said: Due to be going to Vienna next week for the Europa League but can see it getting knocked on the head. An utter pain in the arse. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aldo Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 27 minutes ago, LondonHMFC said: Madness if true though I noticed one of the first comments on that Tweet were from that nutjob Eric Feigl Ding. I'd take anything he says with a dump truck full of salt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP_MFC Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 BBC reporting Austria going full lockdown for a maximum of 20 days and vaccines mandatory after 1st Feb. Oft. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Yet another example of why the Austrian's are the worst people on earth. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 How do you even make vaccines mandatory? Send the vaccine gestapo round and jail everyone who doesn’t want it? Strap them to a chair and inject them? Utterly bonkers stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 7 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: Yet another example of why the Austrian's are the worst people on earth. The old British stereotype of Germans being miserable and humourless was almost certainly created through exposure to Austrians who were mistaken as German due to their common language. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 11 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said: How do you even make vaccines mandatory? Send the vaccine gestapo round and jail everyone who doesn’t want it? Strap them to a chair and inject them? Utterly bonkers stuff. Vaccination in schools would be the answer to keep the cycle maintainedI imagine. But how you vaccinate adults that have refused is anyone's guess. Presumably a permanent exclusion from society unless they comply or some other form of state-sponsored bullying. It is alarming watching parts of Europe falling down the increasingly authoritarian rabbit hole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211029-why-mandatory-vaccination-is-nothing-new -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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