Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[LongTimeLurker]

...and there's definitely no shortage of vaccine at this point in middle and higher income countries so no harm giving the morons who are still hesitant about taking it some added incentive with policies like the one Austria is contemplating.

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The vaccine roll out cost f**k all compared to the testing regime that I've never understood the logic for, and all the PPE side deals for friends of the Tories. 

It's still a large amount of public money, and more importantly, a large amount of time spent using trained staff to deliver jabs when the wider health service is, as they never tire of telling us, under extreme pressure. 

The collective benefits certainly outweigh the costs until this point, but we will see diminishing returns in the very near future if the shan Delta variant remains endemic/seasonal. 

[Left Back]

6 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

...and there's definitely no shortage of vaccine at this point in middle and higher income countries so no harm giving the morons who are still hesitant about taking it some added incentive with policies like the one Austria is contemplating.

What on earth does availability of vaccines have to do with vaccine hesitancy?

[welshbairn]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You'll need to take that up with the posters who are doing it.

I'm only interested in tackling your "moral code" argument.

If you insist. Name a society that doesn't have a moral code that punishes breaches.

[Elixir]

2 hours ago, Johnny van Axeldongen said:

If you restrict the unvaccinated and cases continue to rise – then what?

Blame those who 'only' have two doses?

[welshbairn]

39 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not playing your "changing the goalposts" game.

When did I do that? You're the one who brought up the Nazis and fucking Pol Pot!

[Elixir]

Think wee Rab has been on the cooking sherry the night.

[MP_MFC]

Denmark reinstating their Coronapass and looking to extend it to workplaces.

[LongTimeLurker]

Incentivising vaccination at this point is rational and not comparable to the way Sweden got pilloried for following the pre-existing pandemic protocols rather than joining the over the top nanny state populist measures adopted elsewhere.

[Wee Bully]

8 hours ago, MP_MFC said:

Denmark reinstating their Coronapass and looking to extend it to workplaces.

That can’t be right.  Only a week or so ago @Elixir was urging us to look at Denmark and the fact they were getting rid of all of their restrictions.  It was a “total minter” that we weren’t following Denmark.

Presumably we should now do as we were urged by @Elixir, and follow Denmarks lead?

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Incentivising vaccination at this point is rational and not comparable to the way Sweden got pilloried for following the pre-existing pandemic protocols rather than joining the over the top nanny state populist measures adopted elsewhere.

The way to incentivise vaccination is to produce a vaccine which actually benefits the people who is it offered to. 

[welshbairn]

I don't see that as ominous, just a recognition that it's moving from pandemic to endemic and we'll need regular boosters like the flu.

[MP_MFC]

The CMO commenting on the Dutch lockdown saying he doesn’t think it’ll be the last one in the coming days and weeks.

I’ve supported just about all measures until this point but another lockdown is one I will not abide - that would result in a resignation from the SNP membership.

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

The CMO commenting on the Dutch lockdown saying he doesn’t think it’ll be the last one in the coming days and weeks.

I’ve supported just about all measures until this point but another lockdown is one I will not abide - that would result in a resignation from the SNP membership.

Our hospitalisations and deaths are in a downward trajectory with fairly minor mitigations compared to most of Europe. I wouldn't be too gloomy.

[Elixir]

2 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

That can’t be right.  Only a week or so ago @Elixir was urging us to look at Denmark and the fact they were getting rid of all of their restrictions.  It was a “total minter” that we weren’t following Denmark.

Presumably we should now do as we were urged by @Elixir, and follow Denmarks lead?

As disappointing as it is, it probably was wishful to think a country like Denmark which has had minimal spread through its population wouldn't end up having a large wave of infections. The same will happen in Norway, Australia, New Zealand, East Asian countries, etc. Whether this remains an appropriate response given the real world evidence from neighbouring countries is doubtful.

The reason it's frustrating is because Scotland is in a better position than Denmark in terms of moving on from the pandemic. We have considerably more immunity in the population from people having had the virus, and comparable vaccination rates but vaccination which was more effective due to an 8-12 week interval rather than 3-6.

I believe Denmark also won't be a vaccine-only policy. It is extremely easy to get free PCR tests there, and recovery from infection is accepted. There is also little doubt they will de-escalate once the situation has subsided.

None of this takes away from the fact our nearest neighbours, with whom we have shared the epidemic, got rid of all the pantomime measures we have had to continue enduring up here four months ago. Yet the end result has been the same.

[Elixir]

29 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I don't see that as ominous, just a recognition that it's moving from pandemic to endemic and we'll need regular boosters like the flu.

A fair comment for a change...

 

21 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

The CMO commenting on the Dutch lockdown saying he doesn’t think it’ll be the last one in the coming days and weeks.

I’ve supported just about all measures until this point but another lockdown is one I will not abide - that would result in a resignation from the SNP membership.

A lot of Europe have utterly f**ked it by delaying their exit wave until the winter. Despite some with decent vaccination rates there will still be sizeable pockets with zero immunity. It's intolerable for people who were already at next to no risk but decided to get vaccinated anyway, though.

 

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Our hospitalisations and deaths are in a downward trajectory with fairly minor mitigations compared to most of Europe. I wouldn't be too gloomy.

Yes, the booster rollout seems to be having a quite noticeable impact on the vulnerable and hospital admissions in Scotland despite cases rising among younger folk again. Yet we all know there's next to no chance of the Scottish Government not meddling even further come Tuesday.

[MP_MFC]

Our hospitalisations and deaths are in a downward trajectory with fairly minor mitigations compared to most of Europe. I wouldn't be too gloomy.

I was on that track but when the CMO starts tweeting about it and some MSPs/prominent government advisers are doing so too, it gets the ears up more than usual.

[Bairnardo]

3 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

That can’t be right.  Only a week or so ago @Elixir was urging us to look at Denmark and the fact they were getting rid of all of their restrictions.  It was a “total minter” that we weren’t following Denmark.

Presumably we should now do as we were urged by @Elixir, and follow Denmarks lead?

It will never cease to be the worst take of the thread, when someone wades in all chuffed with rising infections and measures being taken, so that they can own an internet stranger who would prefer it if their life wasn't restricted. 

[Michael W]

I'd prefer that we tried to improve the vaccines rather than resorting to a repeat cycle of boosters every six months tbh. Is there a way we can make the protection against catching covid last longer, or increase its ability to stop the virus  for example? I'm sure we could work on decreasing the hospitalisation rate further as well, further improving on the excellent progress we've made in the last twelve months.

Expect we'll end up with yearly boosters for the over 65s and those with clinical vulnerabilities. I don't favour a continuous effort of boosters for all every six months and tying up medical resources in the cycle. We keep being told of the pressures the NHS is under, after all.  

[Michael W]

Another way of looking at Denmark's vaccine passport is that the Danes brought it back in when cases rose and so did political pressure. This is an option Scotland doesn't have - the places requiring it might be extended, but if that doesn't work (and the evidence from Germany and the Netherlands suggests it won't) then there is no option but harsh restrictions again. That's the road the Netherlands has gone down. 

I'll be astonished if vaccine passports and masks aren't brought back in England at some point this winter. 

It won't work, but then that's a hallmark of the pandemic, isn't it? Piss around with increasingly harsher measures until you're bounced into lockdown.