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Just now, Thereisalight.. said:

"Make others feel safer" aye by wearing a flimsy bit of cloth 🤣

If they were useful I dont think folk would object to a 20 min shop around Tesco wearing them. Wearing them for 8 hrs in the heat we had the last few weeks is something else though and imo they should be binned as soon as

FRSMs aren't made of cloth. Nobody was talking about wearing them for eight hours (although I will go through three or four a day, as HMPPS still mandates wearing one)

And, for the last time - they are useful - in protecting the environment from the wearer.  They're not for protecting you - the only reason this idea was allowed to take hold in 2020 was that these were the only PPE we could get hold of, not because they were any better at protecting the wearer than a simple bandana or snood. It's an idea which has taken root, but it really, really, pisses me off that it continues to be repeated. I repeat the analogy - that surgical team going into theatre. Who are they protecting by wearing a FRSM?

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1 hour ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Not my words, those of Dr. King. As has been seen thoughout this shitshow, the powers-that-be are pretty fucking selective where and how they decide to apply their emergency powers. Fans of the rangers, for example- on at least two occasions they should have put the cells in Glasgow cop shops under pressure, but they were "managed", weren't they?

Obviously the currants' partying wasn't political, but if you feel strongly about these issues, get out and find people irl who share your views. Band together, protest. If the issue is as well-supported irl as it is on here (I have to say I have my doubts, and am also less than confident that the majority on here have ever taken direct action.) then you should be able to put on a show that the media cannot ignore and, again assuming your opinions chime with people, attract more people to your cause.  A few thousand letters (not emails) to the press, for example those wannabe Englanders at the Scotsman threatening to withdraw custom unless they start asking the hard questions and reporting the truth of what's going on. I'm not saying you'll be successful, but at least you're being more productive than someone who comments on Government failings from behind their keyboard while, and this is the key issue, never offerering realistic alternatives. 

Another quote - "spit on your own and you'll achieve nothing. If we all spit together we can drown the bastárds" - the late, great Bob Crow. And before you dismiss that as "lefty shite" have a look at the pay awards Bob achieved for his members. 

 

I've written plenty to my elected representatives, and to be fair they have almost always replied in what seemed like a genuine manner. The issue is that there is not an obvious set of people who "share my views" here - there are so many issues around covid and everyone who is annoyed at the government is annoyed for a different reason. There isn't a single major point that people can rally around.

People could try to organise a march on parliament or a big protest against the need to isolate/quarantine after being double vaccinated, for example, but the sort of people who join me might actually be antivaxxers or people who think it's a "scamdemic", or people who want completely unrestricted travel without checks or so on. It's not practical to really do this type of thing.

Therefore, talking about it and debating the issues on a public forum seems like a reasonable thing to do - you can try to convince people of the merits of your view and hope that those ideas are disseminated more widely.

Edited by craigkillie
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2 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Her argument appears to be Boris is just letting it rip so f**k it why have any restrictions at all? After getting the arranged visiting as per the restrictions in the place where her dad is.

Of course its sad, of course it would be better if covid didn't exist but it does and that hospital has the well being of other patients to consider. 

It's a horrible situation but her entire argument and this hysterical frothing "story" is bollocks. Leapt upon and slobbered all over by the "I don't like Nicola or believe in the 'rona" gang with depressing if entirely predictable cynicism.

She has visited her father. That has happened. 

'Letting it rip'...

 

2 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

That's an argument, I don't agree as double vaccination doesn't mean immunity or invulnerability and because the case rate is still enormous. But at least it is an argument.

'Double vaccination doesn't mean immunity or invulnerability'...

 

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

But you haven’t answered the question. Remain for how long? Until case rates hit a certain number? Hospitalisations/deaths hit a certain number? Forever?

I don't think these weirdos realise England opening up is based on SAGE advice. Still hilarious stuff, but still as equally tragic as it was when covered previously.

 

55 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Well because things like a novel respiratory virus pandemic don't easily round down into (over) simplified memes, slogans or primary colours.

But to indulge you as best I can, I think keeping some restrictions in place until late autumn to see what a cluster f**k the NHS is going to be in seems reasonable.

The virus is no longer novel, it is an endemic human respiratory infection, and the pandemic phase is as good as over in most of the northern hemisphere. Our lives and fundamental civil liberties have never and should never be dependent on the health service getting busy in autumn and winter, which happens every single year. I'm sure your nauseating sanctimony was nowhere to be seen in 2017/18 when folk were being treated in corridors and 300-400 people were dying from influenza at its peak. Nobody gave a toss.

 

7 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Unfortunately it is starting to seem like the only way out of mask mandates is most other countries removing them and the SG having no option but to follow.

I mean, the Nordic countries the Scottish Government love to trumpet have never been overly obsessed with them, and indeed Denmark and Iceland have already joined Sweden in fucking them off. Of course, they don't have any political point-scoring to gain over 'HEARTLESS TORIEZZZ' over there.

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Just last week there was an anti-lockdown protests. Objectively, therefore a protest against the restrictions the Government still has in place. A reasonable position, looking at it as an outsider. 

Except that it wasn't anything like that. Instead, it was an anti-vax rally, where a load of crackpot conspiracy theories were shared, Piers Corbyn said that more people have been killed by the vaccines than Covid and Kate Sherimani called for nurses to be subject to trials akin to those at Nuremburg. In other words, tried for crimes against humanity and subsequently hanged. Lockdown restrictions weren't even mentioned. 

The government isn't going to be persuaded by rallies where people call for nurses to be hanged, deny there even is a pandemic and spraff absolute shite about 5g. These people will unfortunately latch onto any such opposition to the government and will consequently ruin the message you were trying to get across as craigkillie has said. 

Edited by Michael W
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When I went for my first dose of the vaccine the town hall was packed and there were about 15 desks set out with people administering the jags. 

Today I'm here for the second and theres only 4 people administering. If other centres are like this it's little wonder progress on vaccinations is crawling along. 

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9 minutes ago, Elixir said:

'Letting it rip'...

 

'Double vaccination doesn't mean immunity or invulnerability'...

 

I don't think these weirdos realise England opening up is based on SAGE advice. Still hilarious stuff, but still as equally tragic as it was when covered previously.

 

The virus is no longer novel, it is an endemic human respiratory infection, and the pandemic phase is as good as over in most of the northern hemisphere. Our lives and fundamental civil liberties have never and should never be dependent on the health service getting busy in autumn and winter, which happens every single year. I'm sure your nauseating sanctimony was nowhere to be seen in 2017/18 when folk were being treated in corridors and 300-400 people were dying from influenza at its peak. Nobody gave a toss.

 

I mean, the Nordic countries the Scottish Government love to trumpet have never been overly obsessed with them, and indeed Denmark and Iceland have already joined Sweden in fucking them off. Of course, they don't have any political point-scoring to gain over 'HEARTLESS TORIEZZZ' over there.

I'd take more care to ensure I knew what words mean before accusing others of sanctimony, Helen. 

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5 minutes ago, GiGi said:

When I went for my first dose of the vaccine the town hall was packed and there were about 15 desks set out with people administering the jags. 

Today I'm here for the second and theres only 4 people administering. If other centres are like this it's little wonder progress on vaccinations is crawling along. 

Is it still packed out with people wanting jagged?

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16 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

FRSMs aren't made of cloth. Nobody was talking about wearing them for eight hours (although I will go through three or four a day, as HMPPS still mandates wearing one)

And, for the last time - they are useful - in protecting the environment from the wearer.  They're not for protecting you - the only reason this idea was allowed to take hold in 2020 was that these were the only PPE we could get hold of, not because they were any better at protecting the wearer than a simple bandana or snood. It's an idea which has taken root, but it really, really, pisses me off that it continues to be repeated. I repeat the analogy - that surgical team going into theatre. Who are they protecting by wearing a FRSM?

But that’s the whole point, it’s incredibly easy for the likes of me who only has to wear them into Tesco for 10 mins, and as such if it was only me affected then I wouldn’t have any issue whatsoever with masks, but I do have empathy towards those who are required to wear them at all times at work. I’ve had to do it a couple of times and it’s brutal. All that being said, I’m still on the ‘if we need masks to stay to get rid of distancing now, then I’ll take it’ side of this debate.

On the second bit, this analogy that is repeatedly mentioned pisses me off too funnily enough, as it’s a completely nonsense one to raise. Surgical teams wear masks to avoid large droplets going near a patient when they’ve got large, open wounds. This situation is entirely different to stopping minute particles of a respiratory virus. It’s not even on the same planet in terms of scale and reason for wearing.

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3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Is it still packed out with people wanting jagged?

It's pretty busy aye. Only 1 person doing AZ jags for some reason so there's a queue of people not moving. 

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1 minute ago, GiGi said:

It's pretty busy aye. Only 1 person doing AZ jags for some reason so there's a queue of people not moving. 

That's shit. Is it drop in or appointments?

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6 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

1. I've written plenty to my elected representatives, and to be fair they have almost always replied in what seemed like a genuine manner. The issue is that there is not an obvious set of people who "share my views" here - there are so many issues around covid and everyone who is annoyed at the government is annoyed for a different reason. There isn't a single major point that people can rally around.

2. People could try to organise a march on parliament or a big protest against the need to isolate/quarantine after being double vaccinated, for example, but the sort of people who join me might actually be antivaxxers or people who think it's a "scamdemic", or people who want completely unrestricted travel without checks or so on. It's not practical to really do this type of things.

3. Therefore, talking about it and debating the issues on a public forum seems like a reasonable thing to do - you can try to convince people of the merits of your view and hope that those ideas are disseminated more widely.

1. Elected representatives is one thing - and God knows I've used enough ink over the years - but in today's world money trumps principles every time. In that case, the most effective pressure is on Media outlets (except one, obvs.), advertisers and the like. The recent withdrawal of advertisers from GBN would have been sweeter had it been as a result of public pressure. The thing is, for me anyway, never to accept "we are where we are" as a response. If we don't like where we are, let's lead, drag or chase elsewhere. 

2. Difficult to get decent coverage of organised action these days. Just walking thorough London gets you fúck all, and never has. The answer is the XR method of disruption - but this is risky if you haven't convinced those disrupted that their inconvenience is justified in the bigger pricture. Believe me, as a Labour Party member and activist (semi-retired) I've met people at marches, rallies and other events over the years who are just as batshit mental as the most deranged antivaxxer. Great - it gives you a chance to challenge their views (and them to challenge yours), and find the things which you have in common. Neither of you are happy about the current situation, and together you will stand more of a chance of making a difference. It's also got to be healthy for some with more extreme views to be out in the open interacting with real people, rather than diving down another Internet rabbit-hole. 

3. It's not unreasonable, but it's not the be all and end all. It also leads, as in this thread, to very opposite of open debate. Thjere used to be some good debates on here, but in recent months a wee group of posters have done their very best to stifle any opinions which challenge what they see as the correct viewpoint. This has led to a repeat of criticism of current rules (without an evidence-based alternative), red-dot anyone who disagrees, ask virginton "am I a good doggy, am I?" and repeat. 

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8 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I'd take more care to ensure I knew what words mean before accusing others of sanctimony, Helen. 

We could write a book on it with your never-ending mewling.

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1. Elected representatives is one thing - and God knows I've used enough ink over the years - but in today's world money trumps principles every time. In that case, the most effective pressure is on Media outlets (except one, obvs.), advertisers and the like. The recent withdrawal of advertisers from GBN would have been sweeter had it been as a result of public pressure. The thing is, for me anyway, never to accept "we are where we are" as a response. If we don't like where we are, let's lead, drag or chase elsewhere. 
2. Difficult to get decent coverage of organised action these days. Just walking thorough London gets you fúck all, and never has. The answer is the XR method of disruption - but this is risky if you haven't convinced those disrupted that their inconvenience is justified in the bigger pricture. Believe me, as a Labour Party member and activist (semi-retired) I've met people at marches, rallies and other events over the years who are just as batshit mental as the most deranged antivaxxer. Great - it gives you a chance to challenge their views (and them to challenge yours), and find the things which you have in common. Neither of you are happy about the current situation, and together you will stand more of a chance of making a difference. It's also got to be healthy for some with more extreme views to be out in the open interacting with real people, rather than diving down another Internet rabbit-hole. 
3. It's not unreasonable, but it's not the be all and end all. It also leads, as in this thread, to very opposite of open debate. Thjere used to be some good debates on here, but in recent months a wee group of posters have done their very best to stifle any opinions which challenge what they see as the correct viewpoint. This has led to a repeat of criticism of current rules (without an evidence-based alternative), red-dot anyone who disagrees, ask virginton "am I a good doggy, am I?" and repeat. 


Just wait for the reaction . . .

Poodle-Meme-Disapproving-poodle.-disapproves.jpg.314ed46afd44382f1742d42b740a1947.jpg
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21 minutes ago, Michael W said:

Just last week there was an anti-lockdown protests. Objectively, therefore a protest against the restrictions the Government still has in place. A reasonable position, looking at it as an outsider. 

Except that it wasn't anything like that. Instead, it was an anti-vax rally, where a load of crackpot conspiracy theories were shared, Piers Corbyn said that more people have been killed by the vaccines than Covid and Kate Sherimani called for nurses to be subject to trials akin to those at Nuremburg. In other words, tried for crimes against humanity and subsequently hanged. Lockdown restrictions weren't even mentioned. 

The government isn't going to be persuaded by rallies where people call for nurses to be hanged, deny there even is a pandemic and spraff absolute shite about 5g. These people will unfortunately latch onto any such opposition to the government and will consequently ruin the message you were trying to get across as craigkillie has said. 

I think, they say no, not no, f**k U no.

20 minutes ago, Elixir said:

This boy has to be a parody. rofl.gif

 

You are correct! Never been, wait I of for shite.....

12 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I'd take more care to ensure I knew what words mean before accusing others of sanctimony, Helen. 

Left back, ken

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Is it still packed out with people wanting jagged?

In the jungle yes, big team found........

11 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

But that’s the whole point, it’s incredibly easy for the likes of me who only has to wear them into Tesco for 10 mins, and as such if it was only me affected then I wouldn’t have any issue whatsoever with masks, but I do have empathy towards those who are required to wear them at all times at work. I’ve had to do it a couple of times and it’s brutal. All that being said, I’m still on the ‘if we need masks to stay to get rid of distancing now, then I’ll take it’ side of this debate.

On the second bit, this analogy that is repeatedly mentioned pisses me off too funnily enough, as it’s a completely nonsense one to raise. Surgical teams wear masks to avoid large droplets going near a patient when they’ve got large, open wounds. This situation is entirely different to stopping minute particles of a respiratory virus. It’s not even on the same planet in terms of scale and reason for wearing.

Never been honest, looking at his father and asking? No son you're NO man

8 minutes ago, GiGi said:

It's pretty busy aye. Only 1 person doing AZ jags for some reason so there's a queue of people not moving. 

Smokes 10 regal

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

That's shit. Is it drop in or appointments?

want's twos

6 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Both

5 pence, ken

5 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

1. Elected representatives is one thing - and God knows I've used enough ink over the years - but in today's world money trumps principles every time. In that case, the most effective pressure is on Media outlets (except one, obvs.), advertisers and the like. The recent withdrawal of advertisers from GBN would have been sweeter had it been as a result of public pressure. The thing is, for me anyway, never to accept "we are where we are" as a response. If we don't like where we are, let's lead, drag or chase elsewhere. 

2. Difficult to get decent coverage of organised action these days. Just walking thorough London gets you fúck all, and never has. The answer is the XR method of disruption - but this is risky if you haven't convinced those disrupted that their inconvenience is justified in the bigger pricture. Believe me, as a Labour Party member and activist (semi-retired) I've met people at marches, rallies and other events over the years who are just as batshit mental as the most deranged antivaxxer. Great - it gives you a chance to challenge their views (and them to challenge yours), and find the things which you have in common. Neither of you are happy about the current situation, and together you will stand more of a chance of making a difference. It's also got to be healthy for some with more extreme views to be out in the open interacting with real people, rather than diving down another Internet rabbit-hole. 

3. It's not unreasonable, but it's not the be all and end all. It also leads, as in this thread, to very opposite of open debate. Thjere used to be some good debates on here, but in recent months a wee group of posters have done their very best to stifle any opinions which challenge what they see as the correct viewpoint. This has led to a repeat of criticism of current rules (without an evidence-based alternative), red-dot anyone who disagrees, ask virginton "am I a good doggy, am I?" and repeat. 

This c**t can type.   Guys running aboot the jail. Xbox better that Fife, ken

4 minutes ago, Elixir said:

We could write a book on it with your never-ending mewling.

We? Let's start

I am a c**t, 

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10 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

1. But that’s the whole point, it’s incredibly easy for the likes of me who only has to wear them into Tesco for 10 mins, and as such if it was only me affected then I wouldn’t have any issue whatsoever with masks, but I do have empathy towards those who are required to wear them at all times at work. I’ve had to do it a couple of times and it’s brutal. All that being said, I’m still on the ‘if we need masks to stay to get rid of distancing now, then I’ll take it’ side of this debate.

2. On the second bit, this analogy that is repeatedly mentioned pisses me off too funnily enough, as it’s a completely nonsense one to raise. Surgical teams wear masks to avoid large droplets going near a patient when they’ve got large, open wounds. This situation is entirely different to stopping minute particles of a respiratory virus. It’s not even on the same planet in terms of scale and reason for wearing.

1. Absolutely. You have picked up me mentioning I have to wear one all day, every day, yeah? I'm not talking about workplaces, because every workplace environment is different. In mine, for example, we have offenders who don't have a choice about being there, hence everything, however debatable, is done to protect them. It's about liability. In December (hopefully, after various postponements) I'll be stood a couple of times in the Crescent venue in York - unmasked, indoors and through bitter experience, unventilated. There will be dancing, there will be singing, there will be close contact - and I can't fucking wait. I feel safe becuse firstly, previous infection and secondly, double jagged. Anyone who doesn't feel safe can make their own decision how to deal with re-opening. 

2. ..and FRSMs prevent Covid spread by the blocking of sneezes, coughs, singing, shouting and conversation - all of which produce the larger droplets. They never have, and never will, prevent the smaller particles prevelant in repiration. Stopping a major part of any spread is much better than binning the masks because they don't stop the smaller particles, imho.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, as the saying goes. 

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1 minute ago, williemillersmoustache said:

I could but then I fear the quintessence of this postulated tome would be out of academic reach to those who'd gain the most from its publication and consumption.

Ye mean... No pictures? 'sake. 

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9 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:



 

 


Just wait for the reaction . . .

Poodle-Meme-Disapproving-poodle.-disapproves.jpg.314ed46afd44382f1742d42b740a1947.jpg

 

You reckon? You don't think we'll get some stimulating, challenging debate out of this? Just more circle-jerking and echo-chamber onanism? Oh ye of little faith. 

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