Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Honest_Man#1]

1 minute ago, Snafu said:

 

Legionnaires from the moisture in the mask… for f**k sake

[Salt n Vinegar]

7 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

What does “a lack of sanity” look like exactly?

Fair question. I wasn't there, not quite my 'scene'. (Grumpy old git!) A summary would be bending the rules on masks to breaking point and physical contact being no problem.  I don't want to identify the premises, but there was a quieter, less busy part where the sanity seemed to prevail,  (where my son and his g/f were) and a busier part where folk were basically off their tits and acting as if it was a combined 21st, a hen night and a stag do all in one.  My son's pal was in the latter area, so he probably won't be the only one. A rise in cases was inevitable, but I'm left with the distinct feeling that "we" - as in the population in general - could have done more to help keep the figures down. 

[Abdul_Latif]

4 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Fair question. I wasn't there, not quite my 'scene'. (Grumpy old git!) A summary would be bending the rules on masks to breaking point and physical contact being no problem.  I don't want to identify the premises, but there was a quieter, less busy part where the sanity seemed to prevail,  (where my son and his g/f were) and a busier part where folk were basically off their tits and acting as if it was a combined 21st, a hen night and a stag do all in one.  My son's pal was in the latter area, so he probably won't be the only one. A rise in cases was inevitable, but I'm left with the distinct feeling that "we" - as in the population in general - could have done more to help keep the figures down. 

Tbh, I think your son may have been in the wrong place if he thought nightclubs weren’t about trying to get your hole and having a good time dancing with folk.

[Jacksgranda]

 

 

On 24/08/2021 at 18:39, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

What’s everyone’s hopes for the public hearings? Love to see one of the decision makers behind the punt old folks into care homes whilst infectious and kill loads of residents tactic face criminal charges. Hope that it gives people failed by the government the chance to speak without being shouted down as ‘tories’ or now ‘covid deniers’. 
 

That's what should happen

 

On 24/08/2021 at 18:39, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ultimately expect that none of this will happen because it will be a sham. 

That's what will happen

On 24/08/2021 at 18:53, Left Back said:

  Would like to see this both sides of the border.

Unfortunately your second paragraph will be true both sides of the border.  No-one will be personally held accountable for anything.  The most that will happen is some wrists might be slapped for having inadequate stocks of PPE.

There should be enquiries in all 4 countries, NI followed the same practice.

And you're correct with your last sentence.

 

[Dawson Park Boy]

12 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

Lots of interesting posts about the NHS - hospitals, GPS and dentistry and what I can see coming out of this is an explosion of private health care. Eventually, maybe not till after a good few years, people will decide that the service they are getting is crap and the market will kick in. Simple economic rules of supply and demand. A shortage, poor service will bring more private entrants into the market and bingo, off we go. It will be unfortunate, especially for the less well off but that’s what the market is saying.
The NHS should be there for the people not the other way round and, if it isn’t doing it’s job for whatever reason, it’s finished. The market will solve the problem.

It's out the reach for the vast majority and the govt know it. I've been on a waiting list for a relatively routine operation for 9 months now. Had all the diagnostics despite lockdowns but just caught up now in a huge backlog. If it worsens I've been told not to hesitate in dialing 999 and I will require emergency surgery in that situation. I enquired about going private and had quotes of between 11 and 15k so totally out of the question for me and I would assume the vast majority bar the tiny proportion with private medical plans. The reality for the vast majority is that we are at the mercy of the NHS.

That’s a classic situation and I fully sympathise with you.

You are demonstrating that the NHS is not looking after you other than when you reach the point of requiring emergency surgery.

Absolutely appalling!!

As an aside, is there not a point where the NHS must pay for you to be dealt with privately?

I don’t know the solution but there must be a system which combines the state and an insurance based regime to meet our needs regardless of income. Other European countries manage it.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Too many people in the NHS seem to think their role in society is to restrict and ration health care. 

Dawson is sadly correct that unless they begin to behave like a universal service for all then the NHS is finished. 

The NHS wasnt designed to deal with the very complex medical issues that it now has to manage. I sincerely doubt that Bevan looked into the future and imagined the way mental health care expectations would go for one (im not saying i dont agree that mental health problems are some how not deserving of treatment, just that the spectrum and scope of things that are now treated is beyond comprehension of 60 years ago). I think society also creates some of the issues via the media etc, peoples consumption of ‘the ideal’ focus on material things etc has driven us to a place that even without looking at biological and more personal drivers of poor mental health we arrive at a destination which is scary. 

So much health practitioners time is taken up by people who really shouldnt be bothering them with utter nonsense. There needs to be a re-education of the public as to whats an appropriate use of NHS resources. For me its a bit like the climate crisis, we are fast approaching a point where it would be broken beyond fixing, but we are not there yet. I would never support the notion of charging for access to a doctor, because the pandemic has shown that the knuckle draggers and selfish arseholes who demand to see a GP in the most unneeding of circumstances will still continue to be a drain on services. So many times my wife has come home so distraught because shes had to tell someone they were dying of cancer and that person didnt want to bother the doctor and put off making an appointment when the prognosis could have been better. 
 

Your post is indicative of the sort of attitude that will bring the NHS down. 
 

All through this thread there are people giving ‘doctors are refusing to see patients’ etc, they fucking arent, people are triaged, they get the right kind of care and if they use the secondary services like pharmacists, opticians and other similar resources they’d get help quickly and keep primary care appointments for people who actually need them. 
 

If you all want an NHS that will give you everything you want whenever you want it then you’ll have to pay a fuckload more in tax, hope that we can recruit enough nursing staff abroad and stop abusing the doctors, nurses, clinicians and receptionists to the point that they think ‘f**k this ill go work in the private sector’. Well seeing so many of the people who voted for brexit and the tories on here and twitter whinge the most about the NHS being shit, its like tying someones arm behind their back and complaining that they cant tie their fucking shoes. 
Im happy to pay more in tax for the NHS, how many of the people shouting the loudest about how fucking shite it is are as well?

[Billy Jean King]

That’s a classic situation and I fully sympathise with you.
You are demonstrating that the NHS is not looking after you other than when you reach the point of requiring emergency surgery.
Absolutely appalling!!
As an aside, is there not a point where the NHS must pay for you to be dealt with privately?
I don’t know the solution but there must be a system which combines the state and an insurance based regime to meet our needs regardless of income. Other European countries manage it.
 

The old wait guarantees under which you previously might have been passed over to the private sector were binned at the start of the Pandemic and zero chance of returning with backlogs like they are. My op is routine, I can live with it while I watch what I'm doing to try as far as possible to prevent it becoming an emergency situation. I can't really complain about my case not being high up on the list but pointing out that the vast majority cannot just jump to the private sector due to costs. I genuinely don't think people realise just how expensive even the most common routine procedures are outwith the NHS.

ETA I had three consultations including diagnostic scans and procedures during lockdown. That area is functioning OK, it's purely the wait for planned surgery.

[Aladdin]

Here's a really interesting assessment of the best developed countries' healthcare systems from earlier this year.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly

No country seems to be getting it right across the board and it seems to be missing some colour but certainly shows that, even if we changed model, its not going to be an easy process selecting what we move to.

[Salt n Vinegar]

1 minute ago, Abdul_Latif said:

Tbh, I think your son may have been in the wrong place if he thought nightclubs weren’t about trying to get your hole and having a good time dancing with folk.

I think my son and his g/f understand that pretty well.  I don't disagree with your statement, but it's a bit irresponsible to pursue these objectives in a way that suggests Covid is done and dusted. I was young once (no, really I was) and it's true that the pursuit of ones 'Nat King' is a powerful motivator. 

Your comment could be interpreted as suggesting that the younger folk are too stupid to be aware of the dangers of the virus.  If so, I agree that it indeed appears to be the case for some of them. In the grand scheme of things the less careful people are - at any age - the more likely it is that the virus will spread.  Seems to me that denying that is just denying reality.  I accept that my view is not popular, but as a SNP supporting, anti-monarchy, atheist Rangers supporter, I'm used to that.... 

 

[Abdul_Latif]

8 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Your comment could be interpreted as suggesting that the younger folk are too stupid to be aware of the dangers of the virus.  If so, I agree that it indeed appears to be the case for some of them.

Possibly. I’d suggest more so, that they have given up more than any other demographic in recent times, and it’s getting the the point of being unreasonable not to expect them to do young folk things.

They owe their elders no more, having sacrificed so much already, in my opinion.

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Abdul_Latif

[Bairnardo]

8 minutes ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

I think my son and his g/f understand that pretty well.  I don't disagree with your statement, but it's a bit irresponsible to pursue these objectives in a way that suggests Covid is done and dusted. I was young once (no, really I was) and it's true that the pursuit of ones 'Nat King' is a powerful motivator. 

Your comment could be interpreted as suggesting that the younger folk are too stupid to be aware of the dangers of the virus.  If so, I agree that it indeed appears to be the case for some of them. In the grand scheme of things the less careful people are - at any age - the more likely it is that the virus will spread.  Seems to me that denying that is just denying reality.  I accept that my view is not popular, but as a SNP supporting, anti-monarchy, atheist Rangers supporter, I'm used to that.... 

 

The dangers associated with the virus for a young (lets say 18-25 as it fits in broadly with nightclub target audience) is very little to nil. The main risk for them to consider is infecting other, more vulnerable people they contact. All of them, with very few exceptions, have been vaccinated with one of several vaccines which are 90+% effective at reducing hospitilisation from covid.

Honestly, I am not sure what more folk expect this younger cohort to do, or indeed, why they should do it. Its nothing more than a lazy soundbite to say young folk should "be more careful" or anything else, when they are acting within the current rules.

[The Moonster]

54 minutes ago, Lochdown said:

Bawz.

 

Triple vaccinated.

 

Quadruple vaccinated.

 

Where are you going to stop to get to your ideal?

 

Double vaccinated will mean hee-haw re passports at Xmas.  And so it should .

Just lock yourself in the house pal and the rest of us can get on with being alive. 

[Detournement]

21 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im happy to pay more in tax for the NHS, how many of the people shouting the loudest about how fucking shite it is are as well?

We are all going to be paying more tax soon anyway and as well as tax rises on income the government has other options to tax wealth, land and gains. It's also been proven during the pandemic that BoE can directly fund the deficit with no consequences.

Everything you are saying there is correct but it doesn't make the status quo any more sustainable. The biggest issue is surely the low number of doctors per capita which senior people in the NHS and BMA should have been shouting from the rooftops about for the last 15 years but barely gets any attention.

[ICTChris]

I'm not sure if there is going to be an explosion in private healthcare in response to the Covid crisis.  I just did a quick search and the nearest private GP to me charges £100 for a 15 minute appointment.  People just want to be able to access their services with a degree of normality and safety.  

I have private health insurance through my work, so it's reduced in cost.  I've never had to use it but we are looking into using it for a problem my wife has that just isn't being dealt with in a satisfactory way by the GP.  I don't particularly blame the GP for that it's just the nature of how these things go.  I do think that the NHS is great for babies/children and for the elderly - my son gets great care and my parents do as well - but for people between those ages, especially if you are generally healthy and it's not an obvious issue I always find that you are pushed back a bit, subtley.

[101]

26 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

you’ll have to pay a fuckload more in tax,

I, and most people on here I imagine won't have to pay a penny more if we could properly tax income routed off shore and closed avoidance loopholes.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

We are all going to be paying more tax soon anyway and as well as tax rises on income the government has other options to tax wealth, land and gains. It's also been proven during the pandemic that BoE can directly fund the deficit with no consequences.

Everything you are saying there is correct but it doesn't make the status quo any more sustainable. The biggest issue is surely the low number of doctors per capita which senior people in the NHS and BMA should have been shouting from the rooftops about for the last 15 years but barely gets any attention.

They have been talking about staffing levels for decades. The BMJ drops through my door every month and its covered quite regularly. The issue is the newspapers which foam at the mouth about how good brexit is and how brilliant Britain is seem to somehow not like to write articles about doctors leaving the country post brexit, many citing an increase in xenophobia in recent years making that shortage even worse. This also translates to nursing staff etc too. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

I, and most people on here I imagine won't have to pay a penny more if we could properly tax income routed off shore and closed avoidance loopholes.

Mate I absolutely agree with you, but for as long as people in the majority vote tory or vote for parties that put idiots like Humza in as health minister, or buy starbucks coffee or stuff from amazon then no one will address the issues that will hurt the NHS. 

[ICTChris]

Someone who knows about these things told me that there are frequent staff shortages in the Highlands, especially for consultants, as there is no private hospital in the Highlands so consultants don't want to come as they don't have anywhere to do their private work.

[101]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Mate I absolutely agree with you, but for as long as people in the majority vote tory or vote for parties that put idiots like Humza in as health minister, or buy starbucks coffee or stuff from amazon then no one will address the issues that will hurt the NHS. 

We can elect who we want up here won't change anything sadly. But agree the NHS won't get the representation it deserves.

I feel like it's way more societal than any one political party, you just have to look on twitter or local news reports from when Corbyn was proposing "putting up taxes" all these people on low incomes (in relative terms) were prepared to take a bullet to stop billionaires paying a fair level of tax.

I hope that a minimum level of corporation tax will help but it's one small piece in the jig saw.

Even a one off "robin hood tax" to future proof our NHS from the recommendations from the Covid inquiry would be welcome but I can see Privatisation being heralded in, sadly.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, ICTChris said:

Someone who knows about these things told me that there are frequent staff shortages in the Highlands, especially for consultants, as there is no private hospital in the Highlands so consultants don't want to come as they don't have anywhere to do their private work.

Only a small number of consultants actually do private work. There isnt a massive demand for private care of elderly or diabetes consultants as an example.