Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[welshbairn]

Just now, Gordon EF said:

I'm sure you'd have found various furious posts before the election about how the SNP would lose support because of restrictions, just before they skooshed the election.

I'm not in favour of continuing restrictions and haven't been for a while but I doubt this thread is even representative of P&B. Every time I come in, it's the same groups of absolutely raging posters saying the same things over and over.

I'm expecting the mask mandate to be quietly put in the bin as it's ignored more and more, and they'll leave it up to individual venues and transport operators.

[Honest Saints Fan]

Anyone had to covid test a 2 year old? Any tips? Our wee one is borderline high temp on the nursery thermometer and if it goes up he will be sent home and unable to go back unless he produces negative covid test. Praying it goes down as its hard enough getting calpol in him

[The Master]

Still nothing concrete on the Scottish Government website other than a press release summarising the statement yesterday.

This is farcical. 

[SANTAN]

7 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

The joys of Tory voters telling others that their choice of government is too authoritarian, all said without a hint of irony too. 

Why would there need to be irony? The Tories in these current incarnations are less authoritarian than the Scottish Nationalist Party. Is that not evident by the state of play right this current moment or do you think Nicola and co just care a little bit more? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you're just one of those voters that wants Independence no matter what, which is a remarkable stance but perhaps makes a tad more sense than believing Bojo is more authoritarian than Nicola. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by SANTAN

[KingswellsRed]

18 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You'd think so if the P&B consensus was representative, the polls would suggest otherwise. 

The polls I can see show independence became more popular when Nicola was seen to be “handling the pandemic better” in the early days but have since been on a fairly rapid decline. It seems obvious to me that maintaining restrictions going forward is not going to win the votes of the more sceptical.

[btb]

2 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

Why would there need to be irony? The Tories in these current incarnations are less authoritarian than the Scottish Nationalist Party. Is that not evident by the state of play right this current moment or do you think Nicola and co just care a little bit more? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you're just one of those voters that wants Independence no matter what, which is a remarkable stance but perhaps makes a tad more sense than believing Bojo is more authoritarian than Nicola. 

I disagree with the left wing = authoritarian, right wing liberal (sic) argument regarding attitudes/developments in the pandemic.

The right wing arguing for civil liberties is disingenuous, part of it's small/no government credo whereas the debate about where the line between individual/collective freedoms has been a complex issue throughout the pandemic. As an SNP supporter I'm getting progressively more disappointed by their decisions on where these lines should be drawn, but IMO they come nowhere near  BJs UKIPlite Tory party (featuring the likes of Patel & Rees-Mogg) who are presently using it to "other" minorities remove rights of protest and reintroduce "suss" laws etc...

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, The Master said:

Still nothing concrete on the Scottish Government website other than a press release summarising the statement yesterday.

This is farcical. 

Can't write the rules till they have negotiated them with the hospitality industry...

[williemillersmoustache]

The SNP being more authoritarian than Vote Leave in government as they ram through the Policing and Crime Bill, is fucking spectacular nonsense. I'm almost impressed. 

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

7 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

Why would there need to be irony? The Tories in these current incarnations are less authoritarian than the Scottish Nationalist Party. Is that not evident by the state of play right this current moment or do you think Nicola and co just care a little bit more? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you're just one of those voters that wants Independence no matter what, which is a remarkable stance but perhaps makes a tad more sense than believing Bojo is more authoritarian than Nicola. 

The Conservatives want to introduce voter ID, outlaw protest and criminalise the GRT community simply for existing.

I think we can fire the 'tories aren't as authoritarian actually' takes straight in the bin.

[GiGi]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Sturgeon is obviously holding onto restrictions to trade away when she introduces the vaccine passport. 

Edited August 4, 2021 by GiGi

[PedroMoutinho]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

It beggars belief that they didn't think to consult with anyone in the nightclub industry before making this announcement.

Well......it WOULD beggar belief if they didn't have a track record of making that same mistake over and over and over again.

That’s because they’re not interested in businesses. They are at best an afterthought to NS and the SG.

The fact we are now 5 days away from nightclubs ‘reopening’ after being closed for 18 months yet are still none the wiser about how they’re actually meant to do so with the restrictions in place tells you all you need to know.

[Paco]

We really need to change the discourse in this country. It was likely always inevitable, at least since the Kent variant and exacerbated by Delta, that people can’t be kept ‘safe’.

If you’re going to engage in public life, you WILL be exposed at some point to Covid. Might be now, might be in two years, but it’s unquestionable. I’d like to see someone from a government, any government, having the guts to stand up and say that. And then present the reality of what that means - if you’re double vaccinated, you’re x% likely to not even become infected, x% likely to be asymptomatic, x% likely to be very mildly ill, x% likely to have serious illness and x% likely to die. With the same data released if you refuse vaccination.

Nightclubs will be super-spreader events. They can’t open unless we accept that. Opening them and asking people to wear a mask unless seated won’t change anything, 42 people were known to have caught Covid in one day at a large, socially distanced bar in Kirkcaldy where facemasks were worn unless seated. You can’t pack the Garage or Hive without accepting people will catch Covid there, but in a young and predominantly vaccinated crowd there’s no real issue.

Distancing and masks were brought in at a time where any marginal gain was valuable, if it was 1 or 2% effective that was better than nothing. Now we have a vaccine doing 80%+ of the lifting. There’s no need to keep the marginal gains in place. On paper I don’t mind masks in places like shops where it doesn’t change the experience much, but nightclubs can’t operate with them and they’re pointless in a pub that doesn’t need to socially distance. Unfortunately for the SG the house of cards comes tumbling down if you say people don’t need them for a big night at busy pubs and nightclubs but it’s illegal not to slap one on for the hangover McDonalds.

Nothing anyone says can rationalise the shitshow from the SG yesterday. To make that announcement without any detail on what it actually means for people and businesses was bad enough, a Boris special, but no back-up documents getting slapped online alongside it is dreadful. But to have actually not even decided what it means yet with the day itself five days away... there truly are no words.

[Michael W]

It can be both simultaneously correct that Scotland has harder and more unjust restrictions than England and that the UK government is more authoritarian than the Scottish Government. 

Remember 10 years in jail for a false declaration of you travelled from a red list country and £10k fines for unlawful gatherings? 

[The Moonster]

12 minutes ago, SANTAN said:

Why would there need to be irony? The Tories in these current incarnations are less authoritarian than the Scottish Nationalist Party. Is that not evident by the state of play right this current moment or do you think Nicola and co just care a little bit more? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and presume you're just one of those voters that wants Independence no matter what, which is a remarkable stance but perhaps makes a tad more sense than believing Bojo is more authoritarian than Nicola. 

Theresa May is the most authoritarian leader this country has had in my life time. She was fucking horrific. Boris Johnson is trying to pass a policing bill that basically makes protesting illegal. If that's not authoritarian then f**k knows what is. Folk think he's a funny haired, freedom loving liberal but he's absolutely not. 

I've voted for the SNP once in my life. I want independence, yes, no matter what? That's a bit of a stretch. Do I think Nicola Sturgeon cares more about the average person than Boris Johnson or any other Tory? Absolutely. That doesn't mean I agree with her choices. She's taken some illogical ones throughout this pandemic and I massively disagree with her on her latest announcement. I don't think SNP policies in general are authoritarian. 

[Blootoon87]

"Vertical drinking". f**k me.

[SANTAN]

2 minutes ago, Frank Sobotka said:

The Conservatives want to introduce voter ID, outlaw protest and criminalise the GRT community simply for existing.

I think we can fire the 'tories aren't as authoritarian actually' takes straight in the bin.

I'm happy to walk back towards a stance of accepting the SNP are more authoritarian over covid and like to portray this as "caring more". This has been lapped up by morons that believe the SNP are some virtuous group rather than sly political operators content to stick their noses in the troughes. The covid stuff is unsurprising considering they've used their goodwill to make authoritarian changes over freedoms of speech and the example of alcohol pricing which was mentioned previously. It was quite clever to shift the debate on to one where I'm defending Tories though from @oaksoft when the initial discussion at hand was about the sheer predictable nature of this situation and I wand asking why some people were surprised.  

[Oscar P]

42 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

If the phrase "vertical drinking" enters common discourse im burning this country to ground and starting a new one.

As opposed to Horizontal Drinking

[Elixir]

54 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Leitch expecting face masks to be in place until at least Christmas.

How will they justify this if the data both here and England continues to improve?

It will be pretty hilarious to see the continued mirroring in Scotland and England's respective epidemics even now there is a clear difference in mask policy. Of course, we already know it makes little if any difference from the varying measures in place across the 50 US states.

 

49 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Well at least he's put a rough date on it.

It's not great but it's a lot more concrete than "for some considerable time yet".

The WHO will probably announce that the pandemic is over by the middle of next year. Only that will see to the emergency powers being allowed to expire and satisfy bedwetters everywhere.

 

23 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm expecting the mask mandate to be quietly put in the bin as it's ignored more and more, and they'll leave it up to individual venues and transport operators.

This is likely. Less people will wear them and enforcement will drop naturally as the perceived threat continues to dissipate from the public pysche, which will tie up with the WHO declaring the pandemic over and the emergency powers expiring.

 

5 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said:

The SNP being more authoritarian than Vote Leave in government as they ram through the Policing and Crime Bill, is fucking spectacular nonsense. I'm almost impressed. 

I don't think there's any point in this sort of top trumps. The Brexit Britain Government down south has advocated looser border restrictions than the Scottish Government, who have consistently failed to endorse the key EU principle of freedom of movement across the continent over the past 18 months, even when they could have aligned with this.

[Bairnardo]

@Monkey Tennis im not sayingnthis to be arsey, but you recently asked me if I really believed a vaguely conspiritorial sounding post I made about scotgov giving zero fucks if football and hospitality live or die. 

 

after yesterday, where no end date was given to the new normal of councils being able to sinply say no to crowds over 5k, and hospitality being restricted to number of seats available in their establishment, with the government actually expecting to be taken seriously over the angle a drink is being consumed at... I am going to say yes, I stand by what I said. 

[SANTAN]

4 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Theresa May is the most authoritarian leader this country has had in my life time. She was fucking horrific. Boris Johnson is trying to pass a policing bill that basically makes protesting illegal. If that's not authoritarian then f**k knows what is. Folk think he's a funny haired, freedom loving liberal but he's absolutely not. I've voted for the SNP once in my life. I want independence, yes, no matter what?

That's a bit of a stretch. Do I think Nicola Sturgeon cares more about the average person than Boris Johnson or any other Tory? Absolutely. That doesn't mean I agree with her choices. She's taken some illogical ones throughout this pandemic and I massively disagree with her on her latest announcement. I don't think SNP policies in general are authoritarian. 

Fair enough on your first paragraph. Disagree strongly with both second points. The hate speech bill being a perfect example.

This seems pretty far off topic at this point though.