Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[doulikefish]

On the whole mask thing the main players favourite graph country had rising cases first they did....reimpose mask restrictions 

But they have all gone anti vaxxer and are calling themselves Mrs Doubtpfizer and the hospitals are full of actors on here nowadays

[Guest TheJTS98]

1 hour ago, Snafu said:

 

And I'm going to disagree with you on Australia and New Zealand, both countries are vulnerable to COVID cutting through their population without a massive vaccination program that is if there isn't one under way yet. They might have put it off mass infections through their severe lockdowns but lessons learned from over here that once these are relaxed the virus spreads and restrictions are back. Governments there burying their heads in the sand, it won't go away by itself, like everywhere else in the world they will have to learn to live with COVID-19.

I think it's becoming clear that ScoMo's government seem intent on making as much of an arse of this as they can, but I think this idea that they are due for some massive inevitable outbreak is an exaggeration.

It's possible, of course, but if they maintain their borders as they have done so far and improve their vaccination programme, then there's no reason for that to be the case.

Malaysia is a decent comparison in that regard. We had hardly any cases for a long time, and a very slow start with the vaccines. But it suddenly clicked into place and we're now at more than 400,000 jabs a day and relative normality in sight. Borders will be staying closed for a while yet, but domestic restrictions will be hugely scaled back soon. Australia will probably follow the same model. Places like Korea too.

The big thing is the borders. Controlling the borders has allowed a lot more normality in general life, while also keeping deaths low.

As for punters like Elixir, his opinion of me is a source of supreme indifference to me. But he and his ilk on this thread seem determined to not only spread bad information, but to suppress easily checkable, more accurate information. They're a dangerous bunch of complete choobs, frankly.

For examples of this see the constant references to zero-covid etc, which is purely in their imagination as a policy (or on their Twitter feeds).

They twist information, ignore context, exaggerate short-term trends, and basically just shout really loud. Best ignored, and I've fired him on exactly that.

Edited July 17, 2021 by TheJTS98

[Elixir]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

Just because the Swedish government didn't make restrictions mandatory didn't mean that people didn't wear masks and work from home.

I'm well aware they put in place pandemic mitigation measures that had been drawn up long before March 2020.

You're deluded if you think mask wearing has ever been a thing in Sweden outside of a very small minority of people. Both Denmark and Iceland have binned them now as well.

 

1 hour ago, Wee Bully said:

They also did have restrictions, and the 2nd time round they were stronger than in their Nordic neighbours

https://www.ft.com/content/c64b7e37-f00b-4e74-acf8-49c039c57698 

Nice link, m9. They did bring in some restrictive measures, but at no point did they blanket shut down their society. Hospitality and retail remained open throughout.

 

1 hour ago, TheJTS98 said:

The boy red-dotted a post where I encouraged someone who thought the populations of Australia and NZ were 'incarcerated' to get some better sources of information. The poster I was replying to was completely wrong and labouring under a quite serious misapprehension.

20,000 people watched the All Blacks this week. I've just watched Rugby League from Australia with a crowd and my mate (who was at the game) was out having a beer before it.

Elixir is actively against people being well-informed.

He's best just ignored. I'd avoid wasting any more time on him.

Half the Australian population are currently in lockdown, including their largest cities. Are you denying this?

 

 

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

What's your plan to avoid growing new problematic variants, hospitalisations and deaths?

No current 'variant' escapes full vaccination induced immunity, or prior infection. Not one. This will be monitored and vaccines updated accordingly, as the creators have made quite clear. Immunity is also not binary, it is a scale. Over time, populations will acquire immunity through vaccination and/or infection, and make subsequent future re-infections more mild. This is what happens for other respiratory viruses, including influenza and the four 'common cold' coronaviruses. This is how we move from a pandemic phase to an endemic phase that does not burden health services like we saw in spring and winter 2020/21:

Good to know you don't even have the basics nailed down, though.

 

1 hour ago, TheJTS98 said:

They have short lockdowns to avoid the hundreds of thousands of deaths that the UK had. Check the numbers. Keep in mind that Australia has about a third of the UK's population.

International travel is banned, yes, because that's the sensible thing to do. Again, look at the records of countries who have done this compared with countries who have not.

They're not going for zero covid. Despite what you read on this thread, no countries are going for zero covid that I know of. They are waiting until they are vaccinated to a good enough level to safely open up.

The level of misinformation on this thread about what is happening in other countries is staggering. This constant idea on here that anyone continuing with restrictions is in favour of zero covid is more than a year out of date and is dangerous nonsense to keep repeating. Yet the usual suspects on here encourage people to think it.

Covid life in Australia or New Zealand has been miles better than almost anywhere else in the world. Incarceration is not a sensible depiction of what has been happening. Their economy has mainly stayed open, their social lives have mainly carried on, and they have stayed alive rather than dying in huge numbers as in countries that have repeatedly made the wrong calls.

Err, the very epidemiologist you quoted earlier, Michael Baker from New Zealand, explicitly stated in a Guardian article published yesterday that New Zealand will likely continue pursuing some new isolationist 'elimination' fantasy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/no-return-to-normal-expected-in-post-pandemic-new-zealand-and-locals-say-thats-fine-covid-19

We'll see how palatable ongoing international travel restrictions are when people are split apart from families for years.

It's quite simple really: the rest of the world will move on without Australia and New Zealand. They either get 100% vaccine uptake, or they don't and they open up which will lead to an epidemic. Failing that, they become isolationist states.

[anotherchance]

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

What's your plan to avoid growing new problematic variants, hospitalisations and deaths?

Invent good vaccines and jag people with them.

Any chance of you answering mine? 

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, ddfg said:

2 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

You were saying that you didn’t have to make the decision of how to travel back to see your dying dad.
I was suggesting that i would hope that if you had to make that decision, you would decide to travel straight to him, rather than having a quick holiday in advance.
Are you feeling a touch sensitive this morning?

I am maybe being a bit thick here but how could she travel back to Scotland from a red list country and not go into hotel quarantine?

She'd be allowed to leave the hotel to visit her Dad.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Surely a full lockdown every winter (except for Christmas and New Year, so you can have your nana round for dinner) and a full opening every summer from now on is the compromise. Full capacity at the football, except when your team is doing shite, then it's 2000 max. Instead of smoking and non smoking areas, mask and no mask areas.

[J_Stewart]

Just walked past some middle aged bam with a “Scamdemic 2020” t-shirt on in Edinburgh.

Own up, which one of you was it?

[ddfg]

She'd be allowed to leave the hotel to visit her Dad.

Thank you, the point about the ability to return direct to Scotland now makes sense but the lack of consistency in the application and removal of conditions continues to baffle.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, Frank Sobotka said:

Surely a full lockdown every winter (except for Christmas and New Year, so you can have your nana round for dinner) and a full opening every summer from now on is the compromise. Full capacity at the football, except when your team is doing shite, then it's 2000 max. Instead of smoking and non smoking areas, mask and no mask areas.

Harsh on Falkirk IMHO

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

She'd be allowed to leave the hotel to visit her Dad.

Then why is Jason Leitch on the news saying the risk of letting the girl in because of #variants too strong? Having seen the conditions of the quarantine hotels i wouldnt want any of my family staying in them in any way. They are inhumane. Perhaps the family asked for clarification before she left and got the usual conflicting non-committal answers that public health like to give on things. Im still waiting on a call back from a public health consultant i was promised from my isolation in November. The girl has obviously tried to find the most direct route back to her dad not in terms of distance or number of flights but in terms of number of hoops needed to jump through. Your assertion that she’d be allowed to leave the hotel doesnt seem to be based in anything ive seen them say on her case. 

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Quoting this before you can delete it. 

Disgusting post. 

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I can't believe you are still going with this.

She shouldn't have to "avoid managed quarantine" 

Shocking to see the scrambling to defend the indefensible. 

[Elixir]

TheJTS98 still unable to understand why places like Australia and New Zealand will have epidemics if/when they open up, because even having vaccine induced immunity in (optimistically) 80% of the population, still leaves 20% susceptible.

Also, remember when Australia threatened to jail its citizens coming home from India? Yeah, that wasn't racist at all. What a fantastic example to follow, guys!

Edit: the fucking brass neck to throw about claims of misinformation as well. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Elixir

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, ddfg said:

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

She'd be allowed to leave the hotel to visit her Dad.

Thank you, the point about the ability to return direct to Scotland now makes sense but the lack of consistency in the application and removal of conditions continues to baffle.

The exemptions are pretty clearly defined I think..

Quote

(c)on compassionate grounds, to attend a funeral of—
(i)a member of the person’s household,
(ii)a close family member, or
(iii)if no-one within sub-paragraphs (i) or (ii) is attending, a friend,
(e)on compassionate grounds, for reasons relating to the end of a person’s life,

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/74/made

[Melanius Mullarkey]

6 minutes ago, J_Stewart said:

Just walked past some middle aged bam with a “Scamdemic 2020” t-shirt on in Edinburgh.

Own up, which one of you was it?

Probably an actor tbf.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Harsh on Falkirk IMHO

Bigger numbers need to see Falkirk bottle it (again).

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The exemptions are pretty clearly defined I think..

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/74/made

Then why is Leitch giving it big licks about not letting her in because of the risk of variants?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Then why is Leitch giving it big licks about not letting her in because of the risk of variants?

Because he's a pompous w**k?

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Then why is Leitch giving it big licks about not letting her in because of the risk of variants?

He explained it here, the BBC chose to omit it from the story. 

 

[Guest TheJTS98]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He explained it here, the BBC chose to omit it from the story. 

 

I, for one, am astonished to discover the story is not how it was portrayed on this thread.

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

He explained it here, the BBC chose to omit it from the story. 

 

Yes so what? The lassie gets a visit to her dad briefly and then has to go back to a quarantine hotel locked in a room for 11 nights grieving and unable to comfort her family or help with funeral arrangements etc? Nah its absolutely heartless. Let her and those like her, in those circumstances fly in, take daily pcr tests after testing prior to flying and help their family. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Inanimate Carbon Rod

[Todd_is_God]

It takes a special kind of simp to look at the current picture, rules and restrictions and rather than go "actually, those are a bit shit and wrong" go "awch but she could have been let out her quarantine hotel for a wee bit, her fault, she obviously wanted a wee holiday"