Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Thorongil]

16 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Will it f**k. I moved to a new job earlier this year and was told from the off they now have more people than desks so a return to full time office work will never happen. This will be the common theme especially for city based businesses.

100%. And workforces now simply will not tolerate it. There will be great economic benefits for provincial towns and villages as people stay close to home during the day rather than driving or commuting into city centres.

companies who try to force people into a city centre office 5 days per week will not be able to hold on to good staff and will struggle badly in trying to recruit.

[No_Problemo]

13 minutes ago, Lurkst said:

Sounds like you were right.

 

I haven’t listened to it, it is far too infuriating and I imagine without much, if any, balance. 

[Bairnardo]

7 minutes ago, GiGi said:

 

Still doubt it. If businesses want to keep the best staff or hire them there's going to need to be more come and go with flexible working.

Again though, only the lucky few among us actually work for businesses who give a f**k about getting or retaining "the best staff". Iv seen it everywhere iv worked. You want to leave? Bye then. No one is irreplacable. Thats the attitude in a lot of cases. As I say, I think WFH will be far more common long term than it was before, but a huge, huge number of people are going to be disappointed, and its being cheerled all the way byt he govt and the likes of the BBC. Agendas are being driven, and employee happiness in general terms is irrelevant. 

[Donathan]

17 minutes ago, Gaz said:

I'd be willing to bet that in a year's time the vast, vast, vast majority of city-based office businesses will have their staff in five days a week as before.

Not going to happen.

 

Staff have been as productive, if not more so, from home. There are certainly advantages to getting folk in a couple of days a week (or more if they want to) but for those working in back office functions, they’ll be WFH at least 50% of the time. 

[Michael W]

11 minutes ago, GiGi said:

 

Still doubt it. If businesses want to keep the best staff or hire them there's going to need to be more come and go with flexible working.

Not to mention the money saved on vacating office space, which will have the board members salivating. 

[GiGi]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

Again though, only the lucky few among us actually work for businesses who give a f**k about getting or retaining "the best staff". Iv seen it everywhere iv worked. You want to leave? Bye then. No one is irreplacable. Thats the attitude in a lot of cases. As I say, I think WFH will be far more common long term than it was before, but a huge, huge number of people are going to be disappointed, and its being cheerled all the way byt he govt and the likes of the BBC. Agendas are being driven, and employee happiness in general terms is irrelevant. 

I think they soon will when people start to leave for jobs with more flexible work patterns, as @Thorongil points out skilled workforces just won't tolerate it. Most businesses are going to need to come to terms with this reality or their recruitment will definitely suffer. 

Plus there's the millions to be saved on city centre office space when you can take on more remote staff as well. 

[Left Back]

Just now, GiGi said:

I think they soon will when people start to leave for jobs with more flexible work patterns, as @Thorongil points out skilled workforces just won't tolerate it. Most businesses are going to need to come to terms with this reality or their recruitment will definitely suffer. 

Plus there's the millions to be saved on city centre office space when you can take on more remote staff as well. 

Plenty to be saved on wages as well, especially for companies in London.  No longer having to pay the premium that people based in the south-east get paid.

[pub car king]

The only people who want a return to 9 to 5 are city centre land Lords and pret.

WFH at least 50% of the time is here to stay. Now that parents will no longer be home schooling at the same time productivity will/ should be on the up. That's not to mention all the usual distractions of a conventional workplace and the aggrivation, stress and cost of commuting. Some places will potentially never go back.

[GiGi]

2 or 3 days in the office would suit me. I'd rather not have to go in to work every day but I'm also quite sick of working from home and never speaking to anyone unless I need help with something, and then it feels like you're bothering someone picking up the phone. You'd never feel awkward about asking a quick question across a desk. 

[Bairnardo]

7 minutes ago, GiGi said:

I think they soon will when people start to leave for jobs with more flexible work patterns, as @Thorongil points out skilled workforces just won't tolerate it. Most businesses are going to need to come to terms with this reality or their recruitment will definitely suffer. 

Plus there's the millions to be saved on city centre office space when you can take on more remote staff as well. 

I hope it works out for everyone how they want it to work out. Always like to see a workforce make their voices heard. I just think there are forces at work pushing for a mass return to the office far greater than those which folk are pointing to as benefits of WFH, and it seems the govt are on board, can and probably will incentivise it if they see the need. 

The last couple of stories iv linked to here that appeared on the BBc contained varying content that I would describe as pretty malicious in terms of the way they are seeding doubt around WFH and offering up totally biased on unqualified "stats" about how the office is better, or that more folk want it etc etc. Its all a bit sinister. Anyway theres a bit f thread overlap happening here but the sort of crux of what I think I said on another thread ultimately was that I believe folk are going to have to fight for it if its what they want, because of all the above, and that trade unions should take this chance to make a move into non traditional sectors by offering to help folk secure the work style they want. 

[true_rover]

Pre-pandemic there had already been some move towards being more flexible. The majority of my work were either working from home a day a week or compressed hours if they wanted to be. Desks had been reduced as on any given day 20-30% of them were vacant.

[GiGi]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

I hope it works out for everyone how they want it to work out. Always like to see a workforce make their voices heard. I just think there are forces at work pushing for a mass return to the office far greater than those which folk are pointing to as benefits of WFH, and it seems the govt are on board, can and probably will incentivise it if they see the need. 

The last couple of stories iv linked to here that appeared on the BBc contained varying content that I would describe as pretty malicious in terms of the way they are seeding doubt around WFH and offering up totally biased on unqualified "stats" about how the office is better, or that more folk want it etc etc. Its all a bit sinister. Anyway theres a bit f thread overlap happening here but the sort of crux of what I think I said on another thread ultimately was that I believe folk are going to have to fight for it if its what they want, because of all the above, and that trade unions should take this chance to make a move into non traditional sectors by offering to help folk secure the work style they want. 

It's worth remembering that the BBC are way out of touch. They can parrot Govt lines about returning to offices all they want but unless Rishi Sunak starts paying their office digs then employers and employees will just ignore them and do what suits them.

[Michael W]

Companies are ultimately free to make their own decisions about it, but the cat is out the bag. Folk paying £5-7k (not uncommon for those commuting into London) on season tickets won't want to be back in full time as they've been better off financially and parents will want some flexibility too. Many people won't tolerate 5 days in the office anymore and companies that don't offer flexibility might well find themselves stuck when they leave for employers better serving their needs. 

Some businesses might well take the "don't like it? f**k off, then" attitude, but hiring staff and in particular professional staff is expensive and above all a massive pain on the arse. It is not desirable. 

My current employer is utterly terrible for presenteeism, yet seems in no mood to force people back. No decisions have been made, but they will be thumped by competitors that have already announced their policies if it's 5 days in the office and I therefore expect they will follow suit. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Michael W

[Billy Jean King]

Appreciate what your saying but there’s lots of little things you can do.
I always offer my hand to shake with anyone I meet. Most times they’ll take it but at least you can cause a little embarrassment.
Once I’m in a supermarket I drop my face mask to well below the nose. Nobody bothers. I get closer to people than the regs. allow.
Lots of little acts of disobedience help to instill the feeling of not being controlled by ‘big brother’.
Its called being human.

You are describing a total roaster but it's exactly in keeping to be fair.

[Thorongil]

32 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Again though, only the lucky few among us actually work for businesses who give a f**k about getting or retaining "the best staff". Iv seen it everywhere iv worked. You want to leave? Bye then. No one is irreplacable. Thats the attitude in a lot of cases. As I say, I think WFH will be far more common long term than it was before, but a huge, huge number of people are going to be disappointed, and its being cheerled all the way byt he govt and the likes of the BBC. Agendas are being driven, and employee happiness in general terms is irrelevant. 

Aye, a lot of businesses take that attitude right up and until they cannot keep people and can’t recruit. The pain that causes is something they don’t anticipate and then they never want to go through it again.

[NotThePars]

Our department's intention is to have office working a minimum of 20% of the time either as once a week or twice in a fortnight which is partially because they've renovated the building and don't have the space to get everyone in. They don't have a clue about what to do for June 21st which says to me that they're being fed info that the restrictions aren't easing as much as has been said. We are still currently limited to one person per bank of desks so one in every six seats.

[Steve_Wilkos]

Boom.

[Bairnardo]

14 minutes ago, Thorongil said:

Aye, a lot of businesses take that attitude right up and until they cannot keep people and can’t recruit. The pain that causes is something they don’t anticipate and then they never want to go through it again.

I have never seen evidence of that though. Just the rollercoaster of having too many (layoffs)  or too few (recruit) 

I have honestly never seen a business act in anything other than its on interest in the bottom line, and pre emptively make moves to improve staff happiness. Most dont have an issue with unhappy staff, only an issue if so many actually do something about it and leave that they can't operate the business. Most whining in real life doesn't translate to doing something about it and leaving that job.

Again though, I'm not daft. Places must exist that do. Just as places exist that already trusted and allowed folk to work flexibly pre-pandemic. I just think theres an overestimation happening re how many employers trust their employees, or give a single f**k about their happiness. Therese a shit load of moving parts at play tbh, and I think its clear we are a good few months away from "normal" still, so who knows how its all going to go. This only started really because depsite it not being something that affects me, the BBC had me slightly peeved this morning when I seen that ridiculous article. I dont have a horse in the race as such, I just think folk need to be ready for a fight over it 

[Billy Jean King]

That's Wembley announced proof of full vaccination + 14 days or a negative LFT result within 48hrs for all 3 group games so absolute NAP the same will be announced today for Hampden and the Fanzone.

ETA this was posted on the Wembley thread on the TA area but can't see it confirmed anywhere yet so not sure the actual source. Might be shit

[ICTChris]

Not sure if this has been shared, Harvard Business Review blog on the implications of working from home. Women with children are far keener to work from home and this cold have negative implications for their career development and promotion prospects.

https://hbr.org/amp/2021/05/dont-let-employees-pick-their-wfh-days?__twitter_impression=true