Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

Boiling it down a bit far there are we not? 

I don't think so. Nobody would be forced to get a vaccine passport. You'd just need one to do certain things. That's not some new nefarious scenario.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Left Back said:

Playing devils advocate but technically speaking a lot of people already do (proof of age).

Well, yeah. That was my point.

[ayrmad]

8 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

This is fine, but it begs the question what are you contributing to an internet forum discussion about Covid and the associated impact of it?

I contribute what I see fit, what exactly are the "I'd better be able to go for a pint with all my pals with no restrictions" adding to this place other than making everyone feel even more negative. 

[Bairnardo]

I don't think so. Nobody would be forced to get a vaccine passport. You'd just need one to do certain things. That's not some new nefarious scenario.

As I said, the worry isnt that specific, temporary scenario IMO, it's that it's the thin end of the wedge.

[ayrmad]

9 minutes ago, RossBFaeDundee said:

Golly, I wish I had the power to just not worry about things.

Wish you did as well, it's a far less complicated place. 

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Bairnardo said:

As I said, the worry isnt that specific, temporary scenario IMO, it's that it's the thin end of the wedge.

 

Fair enough. I just think you could say that about pretty much everything. I think it takes a pretty enormous and unlikely leap from vaccine passport to Bradburian dystopia.

[Bairnardo]

On the vaccine efficacy data, I see BBC have a story today about how tests are showing the over 80s as the group most likely to show antibodies, meaning the vaccine is now taking effect.

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Well, yeah. That was my point.

there's a vast difference though and it's back to the point about excluding people from society.  you carry proof of age to ensure you (and the establishment) are complying with the law.  no-one is excluding you from reaching the age of 18 in order to do so.  Barring premature death everyone attains that age.  not everyone will want or be allowed a vaccination so are we happy to exclude them from various aspects of society (not just pubs)

[Bairnardo]

Fair enough. I just think you could say that about pretty much everything. I think it takes a pretty enormous and unlikely leap from vaccine passport to Bradburian dystopia.

I used to agree. Genuinely think this tory govt in particular are capable of anything. How that makes Britain look, well I'm not imagining Mad Max or Hunger Games, but I think it's a no brainer based on form that they would use it for their own purposes.

[101]

 

 

@Todd_is_God looks like the pair of us could get a gig advising the Government  24 hours after our discussion it looks to be govt policy.

I think Glastonbury have really made their call far too early, unless they need a capacity crowd to make it viable.

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

there's a vast difference though and it's back to the point about excluding people from society.  you carry proof of age to ensure you (and the establishment) are complying with the law.  no-one is excluding you from reaching the age of 18 in order to do so.  Barring premature death everyone attains that age.  not everyone will want or be allowed a vaccination so are we happy to exclude them from various aspects of society (not just pubs)

 

1 minute ago, 101 said:

 

 

@Todd_is_God looks like the pair of us could get a gig advising the Government  24 hours after our discussion it looks to be govt policy.

I think Glastonbury have really made their call far too early, unless they need a capacity crowd to make it viable.

Seems like Johnson may indeed be happy to do so.

[Bairnardo]

 
 
[mention=2588]Todd_is_God[/mention] looks like the pair of us could get a gig advising the Government [emoji38] 24 hours after our discussion it looks to be govt policy.
I think Glastonbury have really made their call far too early, unless they need a capacity crowd to make it viable.

Glastonbury wouldnt be able to pull together any sort of crowd of people who meet the conditions by summer. Too many tests to carry out, and nowhere near enough of their demographic vaccinated.

This shit just leaves me hoping my work can chisel some vaccines early on some BS keyworker narrative

[madwullie]

7 minutes ago, Left Back said:

there's a vast difference though and it's back to the point about excluding people from society.  you carry proof of age to ensure you (and the establishment) are complying with the law.  no-one is excluding you from reaching the age of 18 in order to do so.  Barring premature death everyone attains that age.  not everyone will want or be allowed a vaccination so are we happy to exclude them from various aspects of society (not just pubs)

In the hypothetical future where this exists, I suspect those who are unable to get a vaccine will be included. Is the whole point of the vaccine passport not to protect those exact people who are unable to get a vaccine for whatever reason anyway? 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Just now, Bairnardo said:

Glastonbury wouldnt be able to pull together any sort of crowd of people who meet the conditions by summer. Too many tests to carry out, and nowhere near enough of their demographic vaccinated.

This shit just leaves me hoping my work can chisel some vaccines early on some BS keyworker narrative

what? the average age of glasto goers in recent years will all be vaccinated by now or be dead! it aint no T in the park

[Gordon EF]

7 minutes ago, Left Back said:

there's a vast difference though and it's back to the point about excluding people from society.  you carry proof of age to ensure you (and the establishment) are complying with the law.  no-one is excluding you from reaching the age of 18 in order to do so.  Barring premature death everyone attains that age.  not everyone will want or be allowed a vaccination so are we happy to exclude them from various aspects of society (not just pubs)

It's a fair argument, but it's not the one I was responding to. Nobody will ever be forced to carry a vaccine passport. They'll only need it to do certain, non-essential, things.

[Dons_1988]

8 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

I contribute what I see fit, what exactly are the "I'd better be able to go for a pint with all my pals with no restrictions" adding to this place other than making everyone feel even more negative. 

Do whatever works for you mate, but your position seems to be one of self protection by burying your head in the sand. It's not one I'd be adopting but I won't argue with someone who is looking after their own wellbeing.

As I said before, it's entirely possible to look down the line at various scenarios and assess if it's something you're happy with without overwhelming yourself and ruining your own health.

I don't feel unduly stressed over this but we're talking about a significant societal shift we're about to go through and think the public should have more say than just dealing with whatever a very small group of politicians and scientists decide.

 

[Gordon EF]

10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

12 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Fair enough. I just think you could say that about pretty much everything. I think it takes a pretty enormous and unlikely leap from vaccine passport to Bradburian dystopia.

I used to agree. Genuinely think this tory govt in particular are capable of anything. How that makes Britain look, well I'm not imagining Mad Max or Hunger Games, but I think it's a no brainer based on form that they would use it for their own purposes.

I don't doubt the Tories would seek to gain some grubby personal gain from it. But I just need to see some credible, plausible steps to accept thin edge of the wedge type arguments and I don't see it here.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Gordon EF

[Billy Jean King]

I don't think so. Nobody would be forced to get a vaccine passport. You'd just need one to do certain things. That's not some new nefarious scenario.

The domestic vaccine passport in Israel is being talked about in an attempt to increase uptake in the younger population where in Israel at least there seems to be fair level of reluctance. It's hoped this "threat" might prompt a chunk of under 30s to rethink their stance ie exactly as you say, your choice but no jag COULD lead to no pub, cinema, sports events etc.

[NotThePars]

A lot of people in the UK did a good job of hiding their nasty authoritarian tendancies until the pandemic hit. 

Sorry m8 I thought you were sort of arguing against objections to ID cards. Once upon a time I wouldnt have objected because I would have foolishly bought the "if your doing nothing wrong theres nothing to worry about" line but now, f**k that. 

It’s a perfect storm for the British psyche. Getting to air their petty authoritarian streak and be sanctimonious about it.

We really do have our best probing minds holding this government to account.

[ayrmad]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

Do whatever works for you mate, but your position seems to be one of self protection by burying your head in the sand. It's not one I'd be adopting but I won't argue with someone who is looking after their own wellbeing.

As I said before, it's entirely possible to look down the line at various scenarios and assess if it's something you're happy with without overwhelming yourself and ruining your own health.

I don't feel unduly stressed over this but we're talking about a significant societal shift we're about to go through and think the public should have more say than just dealing with whatever a very small group of politicians and scientists decide.

 

I'm not burying my head in the sand, we're in a wait n see phase and that's what I'm doing, what is the point in jumping on this roller-coaster of emotions created by those in charge, they're continually drip feeding info with a spin to the worst case, no doubt it's designed to make us more accepting if not pleased about whichever restrictions they do introduce going forward.