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Coronavirus (COVID-19)

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1 minute ago, Thereisalight.. said:

If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 

20210124_002207.jpg

News recently from China is all about locking places down and building quarantined camps to house cases in.

It can’t be all perfect over there.

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9 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I don’t dispute what you say.  I’m not a doctor and know nothing about ICU or ventilation.

are there situations where you can be on a ventilator and not in ICU?

are they stretching the definition of ventilation?  I understand there are different types of breathing assistance?

it sounds suspicious and a bit like shite journalism.

 

 I'm certain they are choosing to stretch the definition of ventilation. Rather than your question are there situations when you can be on a ventilator but not in ICU there are in fact many examples of patients being in ICU but not on a ventilator. 

Even in simplistic terms of the 4076 UK patients in ICU with Covid today there will be quite a number who have improved enough to come off ventilation and be awaiting discharge to a ward. Don't get me wrong the 4000+ patients in ICU is an awful figure but at best it's simplistic journalism to say they are all on ventilators and at worst it's deliberately sensationalist. In other words typical UK mainstream journalism.

Edited by Distant Doonhamer

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If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 
20210124_002207.jpg.314de0a2d652a98511449314bcc8ae6c.jpg
Easy when you weld people into their houses.

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14 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

 I'm certain they are choosing to stretch the definition of ventilation. Rather than your question are there situations when you can be on a ventilator but not in ICU there are in fact many examples of patients being in ICU but not on a ventilator. 

Even in simplistic terms of the 4076 UK patients in ICU with Covid today there will be quite a number who have improved enough to come off ventilation and be awaiting discharge to a ward. Don't get me wrong the 4000+ patients in ICU is an awful figure but at best it's simplistic journalism to say they are all on ventilators and at worst it's deliberately sensationalist. In other words typical UK mainstream journalism.

It does make me ask this question though.

we scrambled to increase ventilator capacity across the UK to 30,000 or so (could be wrong with that figure) from approx 10,000 (again, could be out and can’t be arsed to research).

that was all to cope with Covid.  If the delta was indeed 20k and we could therefore ventilate 20k Covid patients (and have the staff obviously) then why is this news?

ETA.  Should have said why is this sensationalist news.

Edited by Left Back

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2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

It does make me ask this question though.

we scrambled to increase ventilator capacity across the UK to 30,000 or so (could be wrong with that figure) from approx 10,000 (again, could be out and can’t be arsed to research).

that was all to cope with Covid.  If the delta was indeed 20k and we could therefore ventilate 20k Covid patients (and have the staff obviously) then why is this news?

It's news because it's the highest number of Covid patients who have been in ICU in the UK since the start of this pandemic. That's a newsworthy figure but as usual the BBC have reported it at best inaccurately or at worst in a deliberately sensationalist manner. My instinct  is they're clueless enough for it to be the former but who knows.

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2 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

It's news because it's the highest number of Covid patients who have been in ICU in the UK since the start of this pandemic. That's a newsworthy figure but as usual the BBC have reported it at best inaccurately or at worst in a deliberately sensationalist manner. My instinct  is they're clueless enough for it to be the former but who knows.

Agreed.  Had already edited my post to include the sensationalist part of the reporting.

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How are the vaccines distributed? Is it by NHS vans or private delivery companies? 

It can be argued it is easier to distribute vaccines in England as it has more major roads than Scotland. Wales is mountainous in the middle but it is half the area of Scotland. Also half the population of Wales lives in 14% of its area i.e. in SE Wales. 

I don't know much about the topography of Norn Iron but again it is smaller than Scotland and Belfast must make up a significant portion of the population as a whole.

We live in a country where free delivery offers sometimes aren't available to people in Inverness let alone Wick.

 

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1 hour ago, tamthebam said:

How are the vaccines distributed? Is it by NHS vans or private delivery companies? 

It can be argued it is easier to distribute vaccines in England as it has more major roads than Scotland. Wales is mountainous in the middle but it is half the area of Scotland. Also half the population of Wales lives in 14% of its area i.e. in SE Wales. 

I don't know much about the topography of Norn Iron but again it is smaller than Scotland and Belfast must make up a significant portion of the population as a whole.

We live in a country where free delivery offers sometimes aren't available to people in Inverness let alone Wick.

 

This a whoosh Tam?

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10 hours ago, John MacLean said:

I think setting out targets, when they are so many variables that can impact upon the ability to meet them, is a mistake. But the adversarial nature of politics and how the 4th estate go about their business meant that if they hadn't outlined targets the agenda would have been dominated by accusations of lack of transparency. 

I don't see why there would have been a problem in saying that the aim was to roll out the vaccine as quickly as humanly possible (there is no credible argument to suggest that isn't the aim) but acknowledging that various factors could potentially delay it. Treat us like grown ups please. We don't all see things in purely binary terms. 

 

I must adopt this approach the next time I'm involved in building a block of flats.

"We'll do it as quickly as we can, but I don't when it'll be finished". 

Every industry in the land works to programmes and deadlines and there's no good reason why the vaccination process should be any different.

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If ever a picture shows how much we fcked it, it's this one. No social distancing, no masks, an indoors music event, no vaccine needed to get out of it. Yet even with a vaccine we're being told to write off events in 2021. Scunnering 
20210124_002207.jpg.314de0a2d652a98511449314bcc8ae6c.jpg
After the last year I'd take any news coming out of China with a shovel full of salt.

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Rough maths say that to do everyone over 65 by the 'beginning of march' would require approx 1m vaccinations by then. Let's call the beginning of March say the 4th/5th. That's 40 days to do 1m vaccinations, only 25,000 a day if done 7 days a week. ScotGov is aiming to have capacity to do 400,000 a week by late Feb, so they should hit that target easily.

If they have the vaccines delivered and have the capacity to be doing 400,000 per week, I struggle to see how it will take until Autumn to get the whole population done. At 400,000 a week we could give every man woman and child a first dose in 10 weeks from the beginning of March. Even at 200,000 a week it would only take until the end of July to get a first dose in everyone. Get it done on an industrial scale, none of this sitting and yapping to folk either when doing it, in, jab, oot, next please, get it like a fucking production line.

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 I'm certain they are choosing to stretch the definition of ventilation. Rather than your question are there situations when you can be on a ventilator but not in ICU there are in fact many examples of patients being in ICU but not on a ventilator. 
Even in simplistic terms of the 4076 UK patients in ICU with Covid today there will be quite a number who have improved enough to come off ventilation and be awaiting discharge to a ward. Don't get me wrong the 4000+ patients in ICU is an awful figure but at best it's simplistic journalism to say they are all on ventilators and at worst it's deliberately sensationalist. In other words typical UK mainstream journalism.
In the slides at the old daily briefings from down south the one with hospital info always referred to 'beds capable of mechanical ventilation' as opposed to people actually on a ventilator and given that it is now less likely for them to immediately put icu folk on ventilation due to treatment I would assume that is what they mean now too.

If it's not, and it's actually people on full in ventilation then this new strain is worse and we're more fucked by it than it seems.

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46 minutes ago, Steven W said:

I must adopt this approach the next time I'm involved in building a block of flats.

"We'll do it as quickly as we can, but I don't when it'll be finished". 

Every industry in the land works to programmes and deadlines and there's no good reason why the vaccination process should be any different.

In this case you'd be waiting for new forms of concrete and steel to be approved and produced, so you wouldn't know for sure.

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12 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said:

Rough maths say that to do everyone over 65 by the 'beginning of march' would require approx 1m vaccinations by then. Let's call the beginning of March say the 4th/5th. That's 40 days to do 1m vaccinations, only 25,000 a day if done 7 days a week. ScotGov is aiming to have capacity to do 400,000 a week by late Feb, so they should hit that target easily.

If they have the vaccines delivered and have the capacity to be doing 400,000 per week, I struggle to see how it will take until Autumn to get the whole population done. At 400,000 a week we could give every man woman and child a first dose in 10 weeks from the beginning of March. Even at 200,000 a week it would only take until the end of July to get a first dose in everyone. Get it done on an industrial scale, none of this sitting and yapping to folk either when doing it, in, jab, oot, next please, get it like a fucking production line.

I think in the future vaccine supply could be an issue as more countries approve and start their own rollouts. Don’t think it’s an issue currently though and we should be using our full allocations when we get them 

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1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

In this case you'd be waiting for new forms of concrete and steel to be approved and produced, so you wouldn't know for sure.

Good grief.

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48 minutes ago, Steven W said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-55781951

Blue envelopes. Now we're ramping up!!

My mother-in-law who is 95 will be ecstatic - she has not been vaccinated and has had no word of when it will happen. It does not matter who you contact in the FV area no one can give an answer or a suggestion of who to phone.

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1 minute ago, Elric said:

My mother-in-law who is 95 will be ecstatic - she has not been vaccinated and has had no word of when it will happen. It does not matter who you contact in the FV area no one can give an answer or a suggestion of who to phone.

Good stuff.

Who knew that the colour of the envelope would be the catalyst to getting the vaccination programme motoring.

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Rough maths say that to do everyone over 65 by the 'beginning of march' would require approx 1m vaccinations by then. Let's call the beginning of March say the 4th/5th. That's 40 days to do 1m vaccinations, only 25,000 a day if done 7 days a week. ScotGov is aiming to have capacity to do 400,000 a week by late Feb, so they should hit that target easily.

If they have the vaccines delivered and have the capacity to be doing 400,000 per week, I struggle to see how it will take until Autumn to get the whole population done. At 400,000 a week we could give every man woman and child a first dose in 10 weeks from the beginning of March. Even at 200,000 a week it would only take until the end of July to get a first dose in everyone. Get it done on an industrial scale, none of this sitting and yapping to folk either when doing it, in, jab, oot, next please, get it like a fucking production line.

You are forgetting two very important things - vaccine supply, where we weren’t projected to receive 400k a week, even before Pfizer and AZ started backing out of their schedules.

But even more importantly, you’ve forgotten the pesky matter of second doses. Everyone who’s received dose 1 by the start of March will need another one by the start of June. That’s why it’ll be into autumn before we get into the rest of the population, assuming nobody else starts supplying beforehand (I have high hopes for J&J’s single doser).

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37 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Good stuff.

Who knew that the colour of the envelope would be the catalyst to getting the vaccination programme motoring.

Finally agreeing on the colour of the envelope was what helped. 😏

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