Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Ron Aldo]

Say a variant that a vaccine resistant variant hits the UK with no restrictions then we would be back to February 2020's position and would require a lockdown to develop and administer the new vaccines. 
It's been recorded that the vaccines already have reduced efficacy against some newer variants and it's logical to assume that will get worse the more mutations there are.

I'd say that's highly unlikely. Scientists are constantly monitoring new variants and can update the vaccine as and when we need. There's nothing to suggest we'd ever end up back at square one. I'm no expert but it's my understanding that the virus is never likely to mutate to such an extent that the vaccines would be registered useless.

[Honest_Man#1]

5 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Enjoy your night mate. 

This had me in stitches.

[Billy Jean King]

You can file your 'will the vaccines cut transmission' nonsense straight in the bin. Europe will have most of the population vaxxed by the end of summer, let alone vulnerable groups.

Best tell the citizens of France and Spain that as they are moaning louder than people in here. They don't even have an expectation of getting their populations vaccinated by holiday season 70% by end September is best case scenario in Spain and France dont even expect that and anti vaxx is rife.

[Detournement]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/about-4000-covid-variants-across-world-uk-minister

30-40 days to create a vaccine for a new variant then manufacturing and roll out time. So very much best case 12 weeks best case scenario assuming a single jag.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Detournement

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Different flu vaccines are required every winter. Covid is less seasonal and more infectious.

And also more stable than the Influenza virus.

The seasonal flu vaccine every year does not render previous vaccines ineffective either. You could use the previous year's vaccine at a lower efficacy - that isn't being argued.

You clearly stated that the current virus mutation could render the current generation of covid vaccines completely ineffective and my answer was that no they could not.

[The Moonster]

28 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Why would every person who lost a loved one have to sit down and pour their heart out?

What a strange post.

I'm pretty sure there are a lot of folk who would want to show people how this has affected them. I've seen it work very well with folk who've lost loved ones in car crashes speaking to groups of teenagers. The kids are almost always affected in quite a big way.

But either way, i was throwing out a suggestion, and you've jumped to an extreme place to try and dismiss it.

You want people who have probably been through the most difficult period of their lives and lost those closest to them to relive that grief in the hope that some wee fanny who keeps holding parties with his mates gets the fucking message, but aye it's me that's the strange one. 

Why do we need suggestions for something that is already punishable under law? If it's a serious breach you'll be heavily fined or possibly jailed. Do you think that works better as a deterrent or do you genuinely believe that the threat of being sat in front of grieving widow will stop wee Davie fae Cambuslang getting on it with his mates?

[Ron Aldo]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/about-4000-covid-variants-across-world-uk-minister
30-40 days to create a vaccine for a new variant then manufacturing and roll out time. So very much best case 12 weeks best case scenario assuming a single jag.

Even if updated vaccines are required we're not going to lockdown for 12 weeks every year in the same way we don't lockdown for weeks at a time while the yearly flu vaccine is rolled out.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Elixir said:

You can file your 'will the vaccines cut transmission' nonsense straight in the bin. Europe will have most of the population vaxxed by the end of summer, let alone vulnerable groups.

Best tell the citizens of France and Spain that as they are moaning louder than people in here. They don't even have an expectation of getting their populations vaccinated by holiday season 70% by end September is best case scenario in Spain and France dont even expect that and anti vaxx is rife.

They’ll surrender to the vaccine like an invading army down the Champs Elyse, it’s in their nature. Thats why we’re winning Captain Tom didnt give up. 

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

And also more stable than the Influenza virus.

The seasonal flu vaccine every year does not render previous vaccines ineffective either. You could use the previous year's vaccine at a lower efficacy - that isn't being argued.

You clearly stated that the current virus mutation could render the current generation of covid vaccines completely ineffective and my answer was that no they could not.

I've been explicitly talking about potential mutations through to the end of next winter. 

Given that no one actually needs a foreign holiday and that they cause a net outflow of wealth from the UK there is no reason to allow them if they significantly increase the probability of another lockdown. 

[djchapsticks]

Just now, Ron Aldo said:

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/about-4000-covid-variants-across-world-uk-minister
30-40 days to create a vaccine for a new variant then manufacturing and roll out time. So very much best case 12 weeks best case scenario assuming a single jag.

Even if updated vaccines are required we're not going to lockdown for 12 weeks every year in the same way we don't lockdown for weeks at a time while the yearly flu vaccine is rolled out.

I honestly think he genuinely believes that a new vaccine being rolled out means that production is stopped on the current vaccine and no more jabs put in arms until the new one is here.

Absolutely mental logic.

[realmadrid]

3 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, Elixir said:

You can file your 'will the vaccines cut transmission' nonsense straight in the bin. Europe will have most of the population vaxxed by the end of summer, let alone vulnerable groups.

Best tell the citizens of France and Spain that as they are moaning louder than people in here. They don't even have an expectation of getting their populations vaccinated by holiday season 70% by end September is best case scenario in Spain and France dont even expect that and anti vaxx is rife.

The producer at our vineyard holiday homes stated in January that the French would watch what happened in the UK and then decide what to do. He is very excentric and anti vaccination himself but as he produces everything using bio dynamic methods I am not surprised .

They will come round to vaccination in about 2 months time when they start to see the effect it will have in the UK as our death rate suddenly plummets to next to nothing around the end of March . I have suggested that date as it takes 21 days to kick in and they normally say those who die with Covid tended to get it 3 to 4 weeks before, so with the most vulnerable done by mid Feb then or the first week in April should see very Low numbers.  

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Ron Aldo said:

5 minutes ago, Detournement said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/04/about-4000-covid-variants-across-world-uk-minister
30-40 days to create a vaccine for a new variant then manufacturing and roll out time. So very much best case 12 weeks best case scenario assuming a single jag.

Even if updated vaccines are required we're not going to lockdown for 12 weeks every year in the same way we don't lockdown for weeks at a time while the yearly flu vaccine is rolled out.

I don't think the government would be able to let a new strain run riot for 3 months if it hit during the winter. 

[djchapsticks]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I've been explicitly talking about potential mutations through to the end of next winter. 

 

Lets not get yourself twisted here and try and re-tread where you went.

You said:

Quote

The new variant potentially renders the older vaccine redundant.

You weren't explicitly talking about new variants in 6 or 12 months. You explicitly said that the variant currently on the go, could reduce the current vaccine to more or less injecting fresh water status.

And it couldn't. Of course it couldn't.

[Billy Jean King]

Mexico, for example, is open for tourists right now.
Are you suggesting that not travelling to Mexico, and therefore putting Mexican tourism workers' jobs at risk, is less selfish than travelling to Mexico and following their current covid legislation?
It's an interesting take, i'll give you that.

Barely and the bars and clubs still open in Cancun are blatantly ignoring orders to close. Cancun is riddled by all accounts and barely operating. We had thought about it later in the year but it sounds grim, been following developments

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g150807-i8-k13477973-Tourism_Collapses_18_hotels_closed-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html

[Billy Jean King]

They’ll surrender to the vaccine like an invading army down the Champs Elyse, it’s in their nature. Thats why we’re winning Captain Tom didnt give up. 

Good I've got tickets for the Arc rolled over. Get them jagged by October

[TheScarf]

So wait, I have to stay indoors longer so children I don’t even know exist can go back to school? Cool.

[realmadrid]

Just now, Billy Jean King said:

10 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

They’ll surrender to the vaccine like an invading army down the Champs Elyse, it’s in their nature. Thats why we’re winning Captain Tom didnt give up. 

Good I've got tickets for the Arc rolled over. Get them jagged by October

6/4 chance , we expect to have UK guests from September/early October.

[Ron Aldo]

I don't think the government would be able to let a new strain run riot for 3 months if it hit during the winter. 

Why would it run riot when people have previously been vaccinated and a level of immunity has been built up amongst the population, either through vaccination or exposure to current strains?

You're (hypothetically) talking about a new strain. It wouldn't be a completely new virus.

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Lets not get yourself twisted here and try and re-tread where you went.

You said:

You weren't explicitly talking about new variants in 6 or 12 months. You explicitly said that the variant currently on the go, could reduce the current vaccine to more or less injecting fresh water status.

And it couldn't. Of course it couldn't.

 

35 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 

It's been recorded that the vaccines already have reduced efficacy against some newer variants and it's logical to assume that will get worse the more mutations there are.

 

52 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 

I'm mainly interested in ensuring that this is the final lockdown but it's obviously possible that a newer vaccine resistant variant being introduced in the autumn could lead to a third wave of mortality. 

 

50 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I'm obviously talking about a hypothetical program of booster shots to deal with a new variant. 

I have always been referring to a potential vaccine resistant variant emerging later in the year rather than the existing variants which have been discussed in the media. Those variants don't undermine the vaccines but efficacy is definitely trending down.

I don't think this is a particularly controversial take given that the WHO are issuing statements about it and it was discussed in the Commons today. 

[buchan30]

The endgame I think will be treating the vaccine like the flu vaccine. Annual jabs for those over x age and underlying conditions.

I would be happy to accept that If it meant something more like normality.