Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Kuenssberg is a total arsehole, the EU taking “our” vaccine? No the EU want the vaccine they bought and paid for and AZ promised to deliver.

 

Not according to the chief exec of AZ they didn’t.

[Billy Jean King]

Kuenssberg is a total arsehole, the EU taking “our” vaccine? No the EU want the vaccine they bought and paid for and AZ promised to deliver.
 

Ah in 100 years our ancestors will being taught about the Covid War.

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, Left Back said:

The EU now demanding AZ ship them vaccine from the UK.

Coronavirus: EU demands UK-made AstraZeneca vaccine doses https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55822602

EU desperately trying to cover their arses here for being slow to procure the vaccine. AZ also has contractual requirements elsewhere, in case the EU hasn't noticed. 

Even if they are told to bolt, this is pretty bad news. The EU kicking off about it might prompt similar behaviour elsewhere. 

 

[Detournement]

34 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Whilst that would be reluctantly acceptable, I don't think anything even close to that is in their plans.

Based on her tone and language today, a vote for the SNP in May is undoubtably a vote for at least some domestic restrictions well into 2022.

I don't doubt that Sturgeon is still in thrall to zero Covid idiots but when hospitalisations and deaths drop off to the levels of last June (which should happen earlier this year) then there will be no argument to keep things closed. Social distancing in the summer does nothing to prevent infection in the winter, that is clear now. 

 

[Jambomo]

6 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Not according to the chief exec of AZ they didn’t.

Where did it say that? I have seen him quoted elsewhere talking about issues in supplying them and there was no mention that nothing had been paid. In fact there was an article on a down payment from them last Aug though I don’t know about the quality of the source:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets-396m-downpayment-for-300m-plus-eu-vaccine-doses

 

[Left Back]

1 minute ago, Jambomo said:

Where did it say that? I have seen him quoted elsewhere talking about issues in supplying them and there was no mention that nothing had been paid. In fact there was an article on a down payment from them last Aug though I don’t know about the quality of the source:

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets-396m-downpayment-for-300m-plus-eu-vaccine-doses

 

I was talking about the promise to deliver.  He’s stated many times there was no contractual delivery date and it was all best efforts.

[Jambomo]

2 minutes ago, Michael W said:

EU desperately trying to cover their arses here for being slow to procure the vaccine. AZ also has contractual requirements elsewhere, in case the EU hasn't noticed. 

Even if they are told to bolt, this is pretty bad news. The EU kicking off about it might prompt similar behaviour elsewhere. 

 

The BBC said earlier that due to issues in the UK plant, some of the EU stock in the Brussels plant was taken to the UK. This isn’t about the EU, it’s about AZ overpromising on what it can deliver. 

[doulikefish]

11 minutes ago, GiGi said:

"No official confirmation, but noises from inside No.10 pointing towards British vaccines being commandeered by kraut b*****ds, PM not happy"

100k deaths....oh look a squirrel

[Detournement]

15 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

Kuenssberg is a total arsehole, the EU taking “our” vaccine? No the EU want the vaccine they bought and paid for and AZ promised to deliver.

 

Unfortunately for them those vaccines don't exist. 

 

[Michael W]

2 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

The BBC said earlier that due to issues in the UK plant, some of the EU stock in the Brussels plant was taken to the UK. This isn’t about the EU, it’s about AZ overpromising on what it can deliver. 

The implication of what the EU is demanding is that the UK (and perhaps other countries too) won't be getting the vaccines that they purchased on time either. As AZ has pointed out, the UK agreed its order three months before the EU did. A number of EU Member States were in discussions with AZ but withdrew because the EU wanted to purchase centrally. 

There are clearly production issues that need to be addressed. But if the vaccine doesn't exist in the quantities needed, no amount of foot stamping is going to make it appear. It's a blame shifting exercise. 

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

If we get to the stage where we have effective vaccines, effective pre hospital treatment and indeed effective hospital treatment whilst being cautious of emerging mutations then we cannot afford to continue to shut down, to be absolutely clear though, im not calling for an immediate lifting of anything. We absolutely need a roadmap, not necessarily with concrete dates. 

Whoever forms the next Scottish government really has to take cognisance of the fact this cannot be sustained and I feel this will have a significant impact on the result of the election. 

In place of concrete dates (the SG apologists' favourite straw man) we should be demanding objective criteria - ICU capacity, hospital admissions; not total cases - as the grounds for moving between tiers. With school closures in the upper tiers as well and tier zero meaning zero restrictions on everyday life. 

There's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be demanded of Scotland's politicians prior to the May election, rather than cynical vote-grabbing exceptions being made on no rational basis.

Edited January 27, 2021 by vikingTON

[Jambomo]

1 minute ago, Michael W said:

The implication of what the EU is demanding is that the UK (and perhaps other countries too) won't be getting the vaccines that they purchased on time either. As AZ has pointed out, the UK agreed its order three months before the EU did. A number of EU Member States were in discussions with AZ but withdrew because the EU wanted to purchase centrally. 

There are clearly production issues that need to be addressed. But if the vaccine doesn't exist in the quantities needed, no amount of foot stamping is going to make it appear. It's a blame shifting exercise. 

The EU agreed theirs last Aug, 5 months is more than enough time to sort out “supply issues”. 

Likewise as I said, the BBC reported earlier that vaccine was taken from Brussels and brought to the UK when there was an issue at the UK plant, they are just looking for the same treatment and for delivery of the vaccine which AZ agreed to.

It’s just as important that they are vaccinated as we are, normality depends on everyone being vaccinated. This isn’t an EU v UK thing - we all need to be done if we want to get back to normal.

 

[Marshmallo]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Anybody that puts a fortnight in Florida/Maya Rivera/Corfu/Mamaris/Mallorca ahead of being able to freely socialise in the UK needs to seriously rethink their life. 

Alternatively people might have different priorities or interests in life than you and your views/lived experiences are not shared by every other person alive today?

[Marshmallo]

Just now, virginton said:

In place of concrete dates (the SG apologists' favourite straw man) we should be demanding objective criteria - ICU capacity, hospital admissions; not total cases as the grounds for moving between tiers. With school closures in the upper tiers as well and tier zero meaning zero restrictions on everyday life. 

There's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be demanded of Scotland's politicians prior to the May election, rather than cynical vote-grabbing exceptions being made on no rational basis.

The reason why it won't be demanded is the seal clapping from the "but supply!" lads

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Because it's probably going to be like the flu vaccine and require a new one every year. 

 

And we all know how the country used to shut down for flu vaccination season every year!

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

In place of concrete dates (the SG apologists' favourite straw man) we should be demanding objective criteria - ICU capacity, hospital admissions; not total cases as the grounds for moving between tiers. With school closures in the upper tiers as well and tier zero meaning zero restrictions on everyday life. 

There's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be demanded of Scotland's politicians prior to the May election, rather than cynical vote-grabbing exceptions being made on no rational basis.

Yes thats what i mean, if factors a+b are met then we will do x,y,z. If anything it may actually increase compliance. Hopefully with the initial results from the vaccines we will see this happen. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

They'll win by a landslide, and generally speaking they have done better than most at handling this, that's not to say they have been great.

What frustrates me is the ultra-cautious approach which really hasn't gotten us anywhere these last 10 months, they have to realise we share a border with England, and we are not in control of external borders. So in that respect they need to go along with what they (and Wales and NI) agree with the UK Govt and stop the posturing.  We are not going to be like NZ it's far too late for that, but I really do think NS gets fixated on this, perhaps in part due to the advice she is receiving.

Flexing muscles and saying we're considering tougher restrictions and "dinnae book foreign holidays" is not the way to go about delivering the actual message that there's very much light at the end of the tunnel.  Give us a realistic and reasonable goal to work towards and when we reach it, relax and let us get on with living with Covid as we'll always have to do.

I'd agree with all of the above, I'm a supporter myself but not unwavering and will criticise them when I feel they're due it, however the reality is that there's no viable opposition and certainly no opposition that would have likely handled this any better.

 

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

3 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Alternatively people might have different priorities or interests in life than you and your views/lived experiences are not shared by every other person alive today?

The thought if not being able to travel so Detournment is free to drink out of puddles across the UK is not appealing. 

[Michael W]

3 minutes ago, Jambomo said:

The EU agreed theirs last Aug, 5 months is more than enough time to sort out “supply issues”. 

Likewise as I said, the BBC reported earlier that vaccine was taken from Brussels and brought to the UK when there was an issue at the UK plant, they are just looking for the same treatment and for delivery of the vaccine which AZ agreed to.

It’s just as important that they are vaccinated as we are, normality depends on everyone being vaccinated. This isn’t an EU v UK thing - we all need to be done if we want to get back to normal.

 

Did the UK government demand that this happened? Maybe it did, but I don't recall it. I also accept that August should be enough time to sort of the issues, but then we were still having those issues seemingly and had agreed three months prior. 

Also a fair point to make in that the EU still hasn't actually approved the vaccine. I assume that it is about to, or else this would be much less of a pressing issue. 

Do agree it isn't a UK/EU thing - it's purely an EU thing in this regard and it is monumentally unhelpful. There are no winners here whatever the eventual outcome. 

[Todd_is_God]

20 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I don't doubt that Sturgeon is still in thrall to zero Covid idiots but when hospitalisations and deaths drop off to the levels of last June (which should happen earlier this year) then there will be no argument to keep things closed. Social distancing in the summer does nothing to prevent infection in the winter, that is clear now. 

I don't disagree with this, but I don't think NS is on the same page.

Hospitality may very well be open in mid-summer rather than closed, but more than likely at such a sanitised level (early closing, pre-booking required, table service, group size limits, no live music / singing, etc) that it may as well be closed.