Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

No you don't need to know, nobody knows.  You're making unrealistic demands because of cognitive dissonance. They will be lifted when its safe to do so, not before. This is why we let adults be in charge of stuff.

Sorry, I didnt realise we had to adopt the North Korean approach to information suppression. Last I checked I lived in a democratic state where accountability of elected decision makers was a cornerstone of society. 
Are you seriously suggesting that we have to accept every measure without question every decision made because ‘adultz’ ? Have you any idea how dystopian and mental that sounds? 
There’s an election in May... I dont think its gonna go as well as you think it is, especially the shocking number of deaths. 

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

A handful of cases is zero

[Billy Jean King]

And look what happened.  What part of that don't you get?  This can't ever happen again. We have no idea how effective the vaccine will be long-term and we do know, as the actual experts have told us, the longer it is prevalent in our society the more chance of a vaccine resistant strain developing. 

Lol you jumped the shark totally now to the vaccine not working. Just lock yourself in, it's scary outside.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

5 minutes ago, Left Back said:

That's talking about elimination which is something completely different to eradication.  It also doesn't state we eliminated the virus.  It's also not a scientific opinion, it's a news report of what Sturgeon and Sridhar claimed.  While we had significantly reduced transmission due to restrictions we were never close to even eliminating the virus.  As someone said that would have required a protective bubble around Scotland with no-one allowed in until it was confirmed they were virus free.  As those measures were never in place it's asinine to claim we were close to even elimination.

To officially claim elimination status takes approval from the WHO which I believe requires 3 years of zero community transmission.

You mean Sridhar the professor of public health?  What do you do deliver for Amazon?

[Burnieman]

That's beyond idiotic. Why does NZ not have to accept that and we do?  Cause you want to go see your pals?

Covid. Isn't. Going. Away. . . Ever.

[Todd_is_God]

#StatisticallyZeroCovid just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[The Moonster]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I don't think you quite understand what 'zero covid' means.

I'll give you a hint - the answer is in the name...

Tbf, zero covid doesn't actually mean zero cases - https://www.pbp.ie/zero-covid-what-it-means-and-how-we-get-there/ - that's for Ireland but still relevant.

It means getting cases down to such a low number that tracking, tracing and protecting those people should be a piece of piss. 

[djchapsticks]

Just now, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

You mean Sridhar the professor of public health?  What do you do deliver for Amazon?

She's no gonny shag ye, mate.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That's beyond idiotic. Why does NZ not have to accept that and we do?  Cause you want to go see your pals?

Why are we comparing to New Zealand ?

A small sparsely populated isolated island in the opposite hemisphere ??

Why not compare to say Greece ??

Greece have allowed holidaymakers all Summer and only recently closed its borders, it's in Europe has double the population of New Zealand, is directly connected to 4 other countries and it's important trade routes have remained open.

It's deaths since the start of the pandemic total under 5,500 and their current rate of infection is under 80 people in every 100,000.

Is this not a more realistic target to be looking at ??

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Just now, djchapsticks said:

She's no gonny shag ye, mate.

Sridhar a professor with such a firm grasp on public health her public health approach to mental health is ‘just smile and go for a walk’. Excellent example. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

6 minutes ago, super_carson said:

While I'm not advocating it as a policy, it doesn't mean literally zero-covid.  It just means getting it down to a minuscule amount that becomes much easier to contain.  I think that's a detail that's missed by a few people on both sides of the argument; you will never completely eradicate it, not after nearly a year of it circulating in the population en mass.  We will never be certain that it has been completely eradicated from the country so at some point restrictions will be lifted withthe potential for someone, somewhere, still has it.  So that means, like it has done in NZ and Aus, cases may pop up from time to time - it would be a case of having it driven down to such a level that it's easier to identify these cases.

But in the case of NZ and Aus, "zero-covid" was always going be easier due their geographic isolation.  Bar some of the small  islands like Tonga, Samoa and Fiji, NZ and Aus are thousands of miles from their nearest neighbours.  That means that there are less imported goods, and therefore movement of people, and it's far easier to control the people coming in and out (and remember, even before covid NZ and Aus had some of the toughest border controls).  They also closed their borders sooner, and that was a massive mistake made in the UK, but meant the virus was at a lower prevalence from the beginning.  

What is often not considered is the fact the UK (and I talk about the UK rather than the SG just because borders aren't a devolved matter) has a land border with a foreign country.  We would either need to agree to the same policy as Ireland, close the border between the Republic and North or isolate the island of Ireland completely.  Two of those three scenarios could have serious political implications that would go far beyond the impact of covid.  

Zero-covid is, as I've said before, an admirable policy in terms of dealing with the virus.  But it only takes covid into account, there is no consideration for the economy, education, mental-health or society in general.  In effect, it is a scorched earth policy that carries significant risks that we may well be too far down the road to justify.  

That's a reasonable post, but we allow experts to make that judgement, and they are all saying we can't return to normality until it is eradicted AND people are vaccinated.  One doesn't work without the other.

Also the UK is an island just like they are. It makes no difference if you are a thousand miles from your nearest neighbour or a hundred yards, if you are an island you have 100% control over who and what comes in. So we are in just as good a position as they are to eradicate it, we just chose not to.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

11 minutes ago, virginton said:

The restrictions put in place last summer were sold at the time as 'the closest to normality you can expect until there's a treatment'. Barely six months later, we are fucking tripping over stacks of effective vaccines and yet an alarming number of people seem to think that being deigned the privilege of seeing friends/family and going to the pub should be the bounds of expectation for the rest of the year. The treatment is there, once serious cases inevitably drop over the weeks to come then those restrictions must go as well.

Early 2021 has been an alarming demonstration of how 24/7 shrieking about 'mutant variants!!!111!!!' can socially condition people to accept needless infringements on their everyday lives. 

I don't always agree with all your posts, but this one is right on the money. 

I feel we're close to a point of mass traumatisation. The populus is bombarded....and this is the correct word....on a daily basis with infection statistics, ICU statistics, death statistics. We're told not to go out of the house, not to socialise, not to meet family, not to shop. We can do nothing, but sit inside and watch news and read about statistics, and deaths, and warnings.

I was in South Africa a few years ago and I read that the medical experts there believed that 75% of the white population of Jo'burg and Pretoria were so convinced that they were going to be broken into, or shot, or mugged, or raped by the black population, that they were clinically traumatised. And so they built fences higher round their houses, lived in compounds, hired guards, and bought guns. 

In reality, while their chances of all the above happening were higher than say, someone in Norway, they were still statistically very small. But you couldn't tell people that, because the papers and news programmes focussed every day on bad events.

We seem to be reaching that point in our Covid journey. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Bob Mahelp

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

8 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

15 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Its going to be bare minimum October before everybody is vaccinated.  
One case of Covid in ten steps can lead to 59000 cases. With a death rate of one per thousand that's 59 deaths. In normal times about 150 thousand people go to watch professional football in Scotland every week. We can't have a situation where every round of fixtures causes 150 deaths. Its not acceptable.

Even at current rate of 25k everyone would be vaccinated by mid summer ie before the new season so relax you ain't going to die at the fitba. Here's a simpler solution JUST DON'T GO and leave the football to us more risk aware chaps.

No, maybe you don't watch the news, the target is for every adult to have had their first dose by July. The second dose, and you don't get complete protection until you've had that, is three months later. What is three months after July?  Take your time....

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

24 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That's beyond idiotic. Why does NZ not have to accept that and we do?  Cause you want to go see your pals?

Covid. Isn't. Going. Away. . . Ever.

Of course it isnt, coronaviruses have been around since the emergence of life on earth, they mutate, they get worse, they get better, they become localised, they become pandemic, thats what viruses do, every virus. This time we now have a vaccine within a year. Great. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

6 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Sorry, I didnt realise we had to adopt the North Korean approach to information suppression. Last I checked I lived in a democratic state where accountability of elected decision makers was a cornerstone of society. 
Are you seriously suggesting that we have to accept every measure without question every decision made because ‘adultz’ ? Have you any idea how dystopian and mental that sounds? 
There’s an election in May... I dont think its gonna go as well as you think it is, especially the shocking number of deaths. 

No, you can wail and moan about it all you want, but you don't get to make the decisions, and if you break laws imposed by those that do you will be, rightly, punished for it.

[Wee Bully]

I know we have a spectrum of opinions on this thread, and some of you will know which side of the spectrum I tend towards. But f**k me, Carnoustie Young Team talks some amount of shite.

[Left Back]

6 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

She's no gonny shag ye, mate.

wish she would.  might keep him away from here for a few seconds.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

4 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Sridhar a professor with such a firm grasp on public health her public health approach to mental health is ‘just smile and go for a walk’. Excellent example. 

Give me the confidence of a poster on a football forum questioning the grasp of public health held by.....checks notes.....a professor of public health 

[Todd_is_God]

4 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

No, maybe you don't watch the news, the target is for every adult to have had their first dose by July. The second dose, and you don't get complete protection until you've had that, is three months later. What is three months after July?  Take your time....

Actually you pretty much do.

The second dose increases the overall length of protection.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[Hauzen]

13 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

No they don't. A handful of cases in a population of millions is zero, that's what that means.

More than zero means zero? That's outstanding.