The Moonster Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 What reasons do they have for not being open about the numbers affected? I understand that some might have been "lost" or "missed" as they weren't diagnosed, but the suggestion that the Chinese government might deliberately be hiding the number of deaths doesn't really add up. Surely they want to stop the spread of the disease and will need assistance from other countries to make sure that happens, what good does it do lying about it? It's not like this is a Chernobyl style f**k up where State secrets must be protected, it's a virus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 hours ago, 101 said: Ebola wont get any news coverage as long as it stays in Africa. People don't care as long as westerners aren't impacted 14 new cases of Ebola between 8-14 Jan 2020 according to the UN 2236 deaths 1133 survivors. .. and what about an Ebola outbreak at a monkey house in Washington DC? True story. Book is called the Hot Zone. There is a TV mini series too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedgecutter Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 hours ago, ICTChris said: Have any P&Bers ever been part of a worldwide pandemic? I got accused of bringing bird-flu into China whilst travelling alone during its peak in the mid 2000s. I was waiting in the immigrations queue for a connection through Beijing and three or four guys wandered up to me, said "you must come with us" and led me away to some far flung part of the airport. Turns out my temperature was sky high and they'd picked up on this through thermal camera. This was only because I'd been bricking having my single entry Chinese visa getting stamped whilst connecting at Beijing (which I would need a week later to get from Vietnam into China), which one of the cabin crew had said would probably happen when they had handed the landed cards out at the start of a miserable 10hr flight. "Drink this water. If you don't cool down below this temperature in 5 minutes, you need to go special hospital downtown". Great. No f***ing pressure there then should I miss my connection to Hanoi and miss the group tour I was supposed to be joining. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said: I got accused of bringing bird-flu into China whilst travelling alone during its peak in the mid 2000s. I was waiting in the immigrations queue for a connection through Beijing and three or four guys wandered up to me, said "you must come with us" and led me away to some far flung part of the airport. Turns out my temperature was sky high and they'd picked up on this through thermal camera. This was only because I'd been bricking having my single entry Chinese visa getting stamped whilst connecting at Beijing (which I would need a week later to get from Vietnam into China), which one of the cabin crew had said would probably happen when they had handed the landed cards out at the start of a miserable 10hr flight. "Drink this water. If you don't cool down below this temperature in 5 minutes, you need to go special hospital downtown". Great. No f***ing pressure there then should I miss my connection to Hanoi and miss the group tour I was supposed to be joining. ^^^ Populationcutter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said: I got accused of bringing bird-flu into China whilst travelling alone during its peak in the mid 2000s. I was waiting in the immigrations queue for a connection through Beijing and three or four guys wandered up to me, said "you must come with us" and led me away to some far flung part of the airport. Turns out my temperature was sky high and they'd picked up on this through thermal camera. This was only because I'd been bricking having my single entry Chinese visa getting stamped whilst connecting at Beijing (which I would need a week later to get from Vietnam into China), which one of the cabin crew had said would probably happen when they had handed the landed cards out at the start of a miserable 10hr flight. "Drink this water. If you don't cool down below this temperature in 5 minutes, you need to go special hospital downtown". Great. No f***ing pressure there then should I miss my connection to Hanoi and miss the group tour I was supposed to be joining. ^^^ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Other news that has happened in China in the last few days that has went under the radar. ALL foreign books have been banned from Primary and Secondary schools. There goes my big seller....SlipperyPs Asian Adventure 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Dee Man said: Clearly the Chinese government are masters of propaganda and misinformation but by the same token the media are notorious bullshitters and exaggeration merchants which is why I'm asking why you're choosing to believe one and not the other, unless you have more reliable sources? Because people make judgements about every area of their lives. Based on past record of behaviour, style of government, policy of suppressing all information that could result in internal instability, and the views of people from the country and/or community, I think the most likely thing to be happening here is that the Chinese state is (once again) downplaying the numbers. I believe the general opinion of health bodies agree with me. All non-Chinese estimates are a good deal higher than the figures China have given so far. Chinese social media is awash with stories that support under-reporting. Statistical modelling from NGOs (who lose credibility if they are wrong) supports under-reporting. China has under-reported before and has good reason (in its view) to do so. I think the reasonable onlooker at this point has little option but to take everything the Chinese state says with a pinch of salt on this issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, JTS98 said: China has under-reported before and has good reason (in its view) to do so. What is the good reason? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Hedgecutter said: I got accused of bringing bird-flu into China whilst travelling alone during its peak in the mid 2000s. I was waiting in the immigrations queue for a connection through Beijing and three or four guys wandered up to me, said "you must come with us" and led me away to some far flung part of the airport. Turns out my temperature was sky high and they'd picked up on this through thermal camera. This was only because I'd been bricking having my single entry Chinese visa getting stamped whilst connecting at Beijing (which I would need a week later to get from Vietnam into China), which one of the cabin crew had said would probably happen when they had handed the landed cards out at the start of a miserable 10hr flight. "Drink this water. If you don't cool down below this temperature in 5 minutes, you need to go special hospital downtown". Great. No f***ing pressure there then should I miss my connection to Hanoi and miss the group tour I was supposed to be joining. They obviously let you go (to spread your vile disease in Vietnam) so what are you complaining about? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: What reasons do they have for not being open about the numbers affected? I understand that some might have been "lost" or "missed" as they weren't diagnosed, but the suggestion that the Chinese government might deliberately be hiding the number of deaths doesn't really add up. Surely they want to stop the spread of the disease and will need assistance from other countries to make sure that happens, what good does it do lying about it? It's not like this is a Chernobyl style f**k up where State secrets must be protected, it's a virus. In the SARS case there were numerous factors at play, ranging from confusion caused by a complicated information-flow system to basic lying to protect the economy. For example, a local health official who confirmed an outbreak would be breaking Chinese law if he announced it before the Ministry of Health. That's unpatriotic, it's against the chain of command and it carries jail time. Also, local leaders in China are all protecting their local economies as growth is the only measure of anything. Acknowledging an outbreak shags the local economy, and the national government know it could shag the national economy as well as causing China to lose significant face globally. I think the concept of face is one that many people in the west underestimate when discussing why China acts as it does. So. Poor organisation, power structure, local laws, economic concerns, and embarrassment. Edit to add: I forgot to sum up the Chinese government's main fear. Internal instability. Everything they do is to avoid internal instability. An outbreak becoming public knowledge is a huge perceived threat. Edited January 22, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I don't get the embarrassment angle with this one but fair enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: I don't get the embarrassment angle with this one but fair enough. Face. Read up on it. It's huge in east Asian cultures. China was called on this before and had to fess up https://www.smh.com.au/national/sars-crisis-china-admits-its-big-deadly-lie-20030421-gdgmut.html " In Beijing, doctors revealed they had been ordered by authorities to hide SARS patients from WHO officials in an attempt to downplay the extent of the epidemic." I'm baffled that anybody would believe the Chinese line on this. The main thing is stability. The Chinese state is obsessed with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I was on China’s version of Facebook the other day and the people seemed pretty worried. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 5 minutes ago, JTS98 said: Face. Read up on it. It's huge in east Asian cultures. China was called on this before and had to fess up https://www.smh.com.au/national/sars-crisis-china-admits-its-big-deadly-lie-20030421-gdgmut.html " In Beijing, doctors revealed they had been ordered by authorities to hide SARS patients from WHO officials in an attempt to downplay the extent of the epidemic." I'm baffled that anybody would believe the Chinese line on this. The main thing is stability. The Chinese state is obsessed with it. I'm not saying I believe them, I just don't understand why they operate like that. The "face" stuff, whilst it is obviously in play, makes absolutely no sense - how stable is the Chinese state when half of them are dead? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sortmeout said: I was on China’s version of Facebook the other day and the people seemed pretty worried. I'm sure their social media is as flakey as ours. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: ^^^Some of his best friends are Chinese. "A great bunch of lads" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: I'm sure their social media is as flakey as ours. The Chinese version of Just Eat is fantastic though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Im off to Thailand tomorrow, usual hysterical shite but the Scotsman said no worries which worries me. I've had the flu jab so think I'll be invincible but might get a mask as Bangkok is smogtastic and I want to look like a bit of a bellend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyAnchor Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Leeches are the answer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, dirty dingus said: Im off to Thailand tomorrow, usual hysterical shite but the Scotsman said no worries which worries me. I've had the flu jab so think I'll be invincible but might get a mask as Bangkok is smogtastic and I want to look like a bit of a bellend. You'll come back and exterminate us all. High time too imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.