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Coronavirus (COVID-19)

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Think in layman's terms that this vaccine would train the body's immune system how to deal with a virus with COVID-19's general sort of shape by attaching a fragment of that structural type into another more or less harmless viral structure in the vaccine that the body builds up an immune response to. What's critical is the percentage of elderly people with comorbidities this helps keep alive, because it will need to be most people in that category to put a major dent into the number of deaths.

I’m not a vaccine expert but I do talk to vaccine experts and yes this is what they’re trying to do. Problem is that getting a full sterilising vaccine (like the MMR jab) is ridiculously difficult to do and with the timeframe being critical, most big pharm companies are throwing everything at a “quick and dirty” effort that will buy us time until a better vaccine can be created.

These original vaccines will hopefully help us reduce deaths but the virus will still circulate endemically with an R number of 2.5-3 if all social distancing is scrapped. That is not a problem in itself if the vaccine can prevent those infected from getting serious illness.

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Because you talked about kids who are from vulnerable homes as though they were or would be forced to stay at home, or they somehow weren't being considered, when schools were kept open for precisely that reason.
Correct when the schools were closed but there are no guarantees that provision would be made to keep them out of their homes during school time in a blended scenario. I sincerely hope so but never seen that officially. Also wouldn't help the hundreds of thousands of parents who simply wouldn't give enough of a f**k to ensure their kids were engaging as required if adopting a blended model.

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Just now, Billy Jean King said:
1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said:
Yes. Because she didn't mention the bits in blue.
NS was very keen to reference upper and lower ends of the estimates when talking about prevelance, R numbers and case numbers in the summer when they were in her favour. It's only fair that, when they are not so in her favour, their omission is met with questioning. It works both ways.

I'm in no way condoning or defending her here just stating the facts. She made it clear at the outset she wasn't going to discuss the outcome in detail via the daily briefing is all I was pointing out.

By all means give a quick summary and move on at the briefing, but if you decide to read the conclusion, then do so in full. Don't omit the parts which you don't want to acknowledge.

Given we are weeks away from the whole obstruction of the Salmond enquiry saga, anything which could be construed as being economical with the truth is a bad look.

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3 hours ago, Ron Aldo said:

I don't think anyone is saying schools should be completely closed but why do the government seem willing to shut down full sectors of society rather than asking school kids to wear a mask? If reports are true then pretty much everything in Lanarkshire will be closed down from next week except from schools which will be allowed to carry on as normal. It doesn't make any sense.

 

49 minutes ago, Stan Hope said:

closing them would prevent that too would it not ?

 

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11 minutes ago, Donathan said:


I’m not a vaccine expert but I do talk to vaccine experts and yes this is what they’re trying to do. Problem is that getting a full sterilising vaccine (like the MMR jab) is ridiculously difficult to do and with the timeframe being critical, most big pharm companies are throwing everything at a “quick and dirty” effort that will buy us time until a better vaccine can be created.

These original vaccines will hopefully help us reduce deaths but the virus will still circulate endemically with an R number of 2.5-3 if all social distancing is scrapped. That is not a problem in itself if the vaccine can prevent those infected from getting serious illness.

If that's the case there should be no pressure on anyone who doesn't want it to be vaccinated.

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1 minute ago, Stan Hope said:

wtRCwZu.jpg

I used to use a mask like this when working with chemicals. You were not allowed to do the job if you had a beard or stubble as the mask wouldn't be sealed. This mask was accompanied by wearing rubber rimmed goggles to protect the eyes. A few months ago the experts claimed that its possible to catch the virus through the eyes, same as catching a cold or flu. Haven't heard much about that recently, has it been debunked as a myth?

The mistake early on in the scientific knowledge and the computer models was that the advice given was based around a flu pandemic rather than a coronavirus pandemic, even so common sense tells me that as the COVID-19 virus can enter the body through the mouth and nose stands to reason the eyes are also a route for infection. Why is no one wearing goggles if there really is a drive to stop the virus in its tracks?

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12 minutes ago, Donathan said:


I’m not a vaccine expert but I do talk to vaccine experts and yes this is what they’re trying to do. Problem is that getting a full sterilising vaccine (like the MMR jab) is ridiculously difficult to do and with the timeframe being critical, most big pharm companies are throwing everything at a “quick and dirty” effort that will buy us time until a better vaccine can be created.

These original vaccines will hopefully help us reduce deaths but the virus will still circulate endemically with an R number of 2.5-3 if all social distancing is scrapped. That is not a problem in itself if the vaccine can prevent those infected from getting serious illness.

Why would social distancing be scrapped while there is a high R number?

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By all means give a quick summary and move on at the briefing, but if you decide to read the conclusion, then do so in full. Don't omit the parts which you don't want to acknowledge.
Given we are weeks away from the whole obstruction of the Salmond enquiry saga, anything which could be construed as being economical with the truth is a bad look.
I'm sure she will all I was pointing out was she said right at the start the daily briefing wasn't the time or the place due to time constraints. You are shooting the messenger here I'm just passing on the reason given for not going into the detail you hoped for. Not saying that is right wrong or indifferent.

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2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I didn't see the briefing, but i'm assuming NS covered all of the detail, including the confidence interval and highlighted text?

20201028_132124.jpg

20201028_132225.jpg

Here's an apple. Here's an orange. 

The orange is bigger. Fascinating. Forget the apple. 

The Scottish Government have Prince Andrew level contempt for the intelligence of the public. 

Edited by Detournement

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It's possible this wasn't an entirely neutral study, but if robust it will be handy for the gym lobby.
Keeping gyms and leisure centres open during the pandemic is critical to ensuring the health and wellbeing of communities, according to academics who found they pose an extremely low Covid-19 risk.
Analysis of more than 62 million fitness facility visits across Europe since September has found the average infection rate in gyms, leisure centres and fitness clubs is 0.78 per 100,000 visits.
The SafeACTiVE study found only 487 positive cases reported from operators based in Germany, France, Sweden, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Portugal, Norway, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Poland, Denmark, Luxembourg and the UK.

The preliminary findings of the study, conducted by Sheffield Hallam University’s Advanced Wellbeing Research Centre (AWRC) and King Juan Carlos University in Spain, will bolster calls from the fitness sector for facilities to remain open as coronavirus restrictions tighten in some regions.
The director of the AWRC, Prof Rob Copeland, said: “We know that being physically fit can help reduce the severity of Covid-19 infection and, moreover, being active can help us cope psychologically when faced with the challenges of a second wave of the pandemic across Europe.
“Keeping leisure centres and fitness clubs open and fully operational is critical to ensuring the health and wellbeing of our communities.”
The research has been commissioned by EuropeActive - a non-profit association for the European fitness and physical activity sector.
 
It's always been demonstrated that gyms and fitness centres contribute to a small amount of cases. The issue that we have is that the Scottish Government have quite clearly set out that gyms need to close for any region placed into level 4. It would be a bit of a climbdown if Lanarkshire gets put into Level 4 tomorrow but gyms are allowed to stay open. Sadly, I expect that the SG would stick to their guns and close them.

In saying that, they've already moved the goalposts with regards to level 1 restrictions so who knows.

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Why would social distancing be scrapped while there is a high R number?

Because the virus would no longer be a serious threat to human life

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AFAIK, staggered pick up and drop off times. Staggered lunch times. At my boys' primary each class has its own "zone" marked out on the playground for playtime and lunch etc. Sanitiser in classrooms, not sitting in groups, each pair of chairs as far from the others as possible. (I think it's bsuppose to be 2m but I'm not sure) no breakfast club, no after school clubs. No homework on jotters, no pencil cases in and out and probably loads more I'm not aware of. 
Good to see them implementing some sort of safety procedures when it comes to kids.

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I reckon the Scottish Government has done a pretty decent job dealing with the virus, particularly given the restraints placed upon them.  I’m pleased it’s Sturgeon handling this and not her creepy predecessor.

If Scotland were an independent country we would have the financial autonomy to address the economic impact of the restrictions in a way we do not have at present.

As someone previously mentioned the start of the academic year in universities and colleges has led to a spike, it was inevitable imo.  I reckon the governments north and south of the border were caught between a rock and a hard place on this one, criticised if they did, criticised if they didn’t.

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8 minutes ago, Donathan said:


Because the virus would no longer be a serious threat to human life

Wouldn't that depend on the virus rather than the vaccine?

The vaccine is our responsive reaction, while COVID-19 stays one step ahead.

Viruses mutate.

It will become an arms race just like any other against a serious contagious virus.

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Ive just been told to isolate for 2 weeks, fantastic


Sopranos seasons 1-6 are on Now TV atm I think.

Also godspeed, brother. Hope everything is alright.

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54 minutes ago, Donathan said:


Because the virus would no longer be a serious threat to human life

Thing is though that you probably are not going to get 100% efficacy with a vaccine of this type, which is why a lot of medical professionals are trying to get people to temper their expectations a bit and not view it as a magic bullet. You only need >50% of cases being significantly alleviated to have a shot at approval from what I understand. Let's say deaths are only 25% of what they otherwise would have been after high risk groups have been vaccinated. Is that enough to end the hysteria in the tabloid media and end it from being viewed as a serious threat, if having everything fully normal again creates another surge of new cases like the one we are going through at the moment? Think the powers that be would still be keen on some social distancing to keep the R0 somewhat suppressed so the optics look good from that angle.

Edited by LongTimeLurker

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2 minutes ago, Snafu said:

....Viruses mutate....

Apparently this one doesn't mutate that much, which should make life a lot easier than it is with influenza in terms of developing treatments.

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2 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 


Sopranos seasons 1-6 are on Now TV atm I think.

Also godspeed, brother. Hope everything is alright.

 

Oh god im going to go on an absolute binge. No im fine, just unfortunately had very brief contact with someone who tested positive. Appreciate that! 

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And if your expectations are not being met, theres always take the stewardship yourself and try to make a difference. 
Been there, done that, then discovered that some of your colleagues were spineless c***s who would sell their first born for an extra Sunday shift.

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3 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Apparently this one doesn't mutate that much, which should make life a lot easier than it is with influenza in terms of developing treatments.

Last time I looked back May there were 3 different mutations, I still think it's too early to assume that this virus doesn't mutate much.

Best wait to see how it reacts to a vaccine across a population first.

 

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