Whitburn Vale Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 I'm as big a nationalist as anyone on here but NS can fook off with this latest travel ban peesh,I get it for tier 4 but not from 3 down!! How many Scots hav family in other council areas?,how many Scots have partners in other council areas? It is nanny state stuff and she needs to wake up before it's too late,as has been mentioned as winter rolls in,people more than ever rely and need their closest people around them. The toll mentally from this will be catastrophic. Also I've had cancer 5 yrs ago but it seems now that the only thing that matters is Covid 19,f**k what happens to anyone else if they get the big C or any other life threatening illness. I have no doubt Covid is serious but not to the detriment of everything else I.e cancer,mental illness,heart disease and so on.... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 33 minutes ago, Steven W said: I do. Covid is going nowhere. It'll be with us all of next year for sure. £100 charity bet that we won’t have travel restrictions for the next 14 months? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said: I'm as big a nationalist as anyone on here but NS can fook off with this latest travel ban peesh,I get it for tier 4 but not from 3 down!! How many Scots hav family in other council areas?,how many Scots have partners in other council areas? It is nanny state stuff and she needs to wake up before it's too late,as has been mentioned as winter rolls in,people more than ever rely and need their closest people around them. The toll mentally from this will be catastrophic. Also I've had cancer 5 yrs ago but it seems now that the only thing that matters is Covid 19,f**k what happens to anyone else if they get the big C or any other life threatening illness. I have no doubt Covid is serious but not to the detriment of everything else I.e cancer,mental illness,heart disease and so on.... People in the highlands have an area the size of Belgium to go out to play in but folk from Clackmannan can't go 10 mins along the road.. aye ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Was watching some news earlier today, Andrew Neil and some Radio punter were labouring the point about how shit this is going to be over winter. I think there has been a huge dose throughout all of this, of something that really fucks me off as regards mental health. Rewind back to April and lockdown mk 1. Loads of folk went on and on about how big an impact this will have on mental health. But that was it. Folk seem to think that if you acknowledge the existence of a mental health issue that's it dealt with. Meanwhile, the radio guy I heard this morning said that in London last month suicides were up by 70%. Stop fucking talking about it and do something. Let's see the fucking money, the recognition, the support. The measures being taken against covid are literally, without any degree of exaggeration, destroying people. Their health, their livelihoods, their methods of coping with the shit life already throws at them. I have ranted about this before that tokenism is huge as regards mental health, and it has gotten fully worse with this. I genuinely dont believe either UK or Scotgov have an idea if whats coming at the back of this. There’s no real political will in a lot of circles to do anything to fix the problems so the best you’re getting is “I hear you and feel your pain.” I think the best description I’ve heard of it is that politics now is about treating the electorate like a complaints department of a big company. “Your call is very important to us” while you’re stuck on hold indefinitely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Whitburn Vale said: I'm as big a nationalist as anyone on here but NS can fook off with this latest travel ban peesh,I get it for tier 4 but not from 3 down!! How many Scots hav family in other council areas?,how many Scots have partners in other council areas? It is nanny state stuff and she needs to wake up before it's too late,as has been mentioned as winter rolls in,people more than ever rely and need their closest people around them. The toll mentally from this will be catastrophic. Also I've had cancer 5 yrs ago but it seems now that the only thing that matters is Covid 19,f**k what happens to anyone else if they get the big C or any other life threatening illness. I have no doubt Covid is serious but not to the detriment of everything else I.e cancer,mental illness,heart disease and so on.... I believe Leitch said that you can travel between tiers if you're in a bubble/extended household too in order to meet with that extended household. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said: If the SG feel they need to make things illegal to get people to listen to their restrictions, maybe they should stop operating under the assumption that most people are fully behind their decisions. If that really were the case, then the number not following the guidance would be low enough that that would not be required. Aye, thats how it works m9. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven W Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said: £100 charity bet that we won’t have travel restrictions for the next 14 months? £100! You are clearly have a far healthier bank balance than I do! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart87 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Depends a lot on the age and health of the grandparents. At the end of the day it's personal risk management. My wife is lucky to have both her mother (70s) and gran (90s) alive but both have health issues and hence we are keeping my sons contact with both to a bare minimum which they both agree with.Yeah as a family we have decided that the benefits for my parents and my kids outweigh the risk from the virus. My parents are both 63 and healthy for their age. My mum is working from home and my dad retired so we are pretty much the only people they come in to contact with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven W Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Mass testing will be the only way to avoid a third wave of the virus in the new year. The Green Party (on the back of the Liverpool testing) asked NS about this yesterday. But she wasn't keen - said the accuracy of the tests weren't good enough. So thats been ruled out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honest_Man#1 Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Steven W said: £100! You are clearly have a far healthier bank balance than I do! I’m so confident of winning that bet I would do £100k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 https://unherd.com/2020/11/the-trouble-with-covid-denialism/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Steven W said: The Green Party (on the back of the Liverpool testing) asked NS about this yesterday. But she wasn't keen - said the accuracy of the tests weren't good enough. So thats been ruled out https://mobile.twitter.com/GregoryHoare/status/1323935241405345794 Doesn't sound like it was ruled out. There is a higher false negative rate with the quick turnarounds, so you'd have to repeat the exercise on a pretty short cadence to stop asymptomatic spread entirely. Logistically that is a challenge. Obviously it should still stop a higher degree of asymptomatic spread quicker, but would be unlikely to stamp it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 27 minutes ago, NotThePars said: There’s no real political will in a lot of circles to do anything to fix the problems so the best you’re getting is “I hear you and feel your pain.” I think the best description I’ve heard of it is that politics now is about treating the electorate like a complaints department of a big company. “Your call is very important to us” while you’re stuck on hold indefinitely. Going on this tangent too, it's not just mental health but health in general our attitude in Scotland stinks, if someone calls into work we automatically assume they are either lazy or hungover etc, when I was young ( not that long ago) I had to be clearly and visibly very unwell before my parents took it seriously, anything else was met with a " nice try now away to the school you" Only since having a partner from another culture did I realise how bad our culture of " ach yer fine stoap greetin " is to peoples well being 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, Steven W said: The Green Party (on the back of the Liverpool testing) asked NS about this yesterday. But she wasn't keen - said the accuracy of the tests weren't good enough. So thats been ruled out Oh well untold misery for all continues then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven W Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, renton said: https://mobile.twitter.com/GregoryHoare/status/1323935241405345794 Doesn't sound like it was ruled out. There is a higher false negative rate with the quick turnarounds, so you'd have to repeat the exercise on a pretty short cadence to stop asymptomatic spread entirely. Logistically that is a challenge. Obviously it should still stop a higher degree of asymptomatic spread quicker, but would be unlikely to stamp it out. The BBC report yesterday (Kirsten someone on twitter) more detailed than that. In short she doesn't believe the quick test that's being done in Liverpool is accurate enough. She did welcome 'mass testing', but only on the proviso its better than the Liverpool test. So without such a test, no mass testing (for now) up here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted November 5, 2020 Author Share Posted November 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: Going on this tangent too, it's not just mental health but health in general our attitude in Scotland stinks, if someone calls into work we automatically assume they are either lazy or hungover etc, when I was young ( not that long ago) I had to be clearly and visibly very unwell before my parents took it seriously, anything else was met with a " nice try now away to the school you" Only since having a partner from another culture did I realise how bad our culture of " ach yer fine stoap greetin " is to peoples well being I broke my wrist when I was a teenager and my mum refused to believe me and only took me to the hospital the next day, dropped me off and made me walk three miles home, so sure was she that I was putting it on. To be fair to her I broke it playing football and finished the match so she probably thought I was being over dramatic. My dad has arthitis in his ankle which he broke as a teenager but played rugby on and then never went to the doctor about. More than fifty years later he is registered disabled and can't walk but on the other hand, he might not have been selected for the first XV again had he pulled out. I'm pretty sure I suffered a concussion playing rugby when I was at school as well, I hit my head on the ground after being tackled and had a severe headache for about 24 hours aferwards with a flashing aura, essentially a migraine. I don't remember ever having migraines before that but I have had them periodically since so effectively I suffered permanent brain damage from it. Nothing done, I don't think I even told anyone about it at the time. I can remmber a team mate being knocked unconcious, we just picked him up and he came to and we played on, nothing was done about it, no follow up, no-one checked he was OK. I don't really blame anyone involved in any of these, that's just how it was back in the dark days of the 1990s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just now, Steven W said: In short she doesn't believe the quick test that's being done in Liverpool is accurate enough. There's surely an argument, though, that if it is a regular test, and depending on the setting, you can get away with false negatives a little more. Ultimately it doesn't matter how many people are 'infected' - it''s how many are infectious that is important. The rapid tests will miss some people, but it's more likely that those that test positive are actually infectious, unlike the current test which is just looking furiously for a fragment of RNA. There are pros and cons for both types of test (these rapid ones v which we use currently). It depends what the priority is, and also what the setting is that it's being used for. Rapid testing to allow a full football stadium (or other outdoor event) is perfectly acceptable, however it is not so ideal for full indoor events / offices. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Furlough getting extended until March 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 There's surely an argument, though, that if it is a regular test, and depending on the setting, you can get away with false negatives a little more. Ultimately it doesn't matter how many people are 'infected' - it''s how many are infectious that is important. The rapid tests will miss some people, but it's more likely that those that test positive are actually infectious, unlike the current test which is just looking furiously for a fragment of RNA. There are pros and cons for both types of test (these rapid ones v which we use currently). It depends what the priority is, and also what the setting is that it's being used for. Rapid testing to allow a full football stadium (or other outdoor event) is perfectly acceptable, however it is not so ideal for full indoor events / offices.Exactly this. Rapid testing is good for one day events (gigs or the football), not so much music festivals or holidays.Testing for infectiousness is fine if you’re willing to accept some people incubating the virus will come through the door (which you should be as those people will not spread the virus yet) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Donathan said: Furlough getting extended until March Interesting. You would have to assume that this, coupled with BJ's repeated assurances that it will be "very different" by Spring, means they know something is coming that will allow them to majorly ease restrictions by April. It's also a sure fire indicator that when they said 4 week lockdown in England, they meant months. Edited November 5, 2020 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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