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No you weren’t. 
They reckon that because some of us work within 2m but in screened off areas then we could get false positives.
i.e.

Worker 1 | worker 2 | worker 3

If 2 gets a positive then 1 and 3 will get a message because they are within 2m but screened off by a wall.

Only 30% of workers are like this the rest are open but distanced. Everyone was told to switch off Bluetooth but its not compulsory.

Dont mean to keep going on but this is a new low tbh
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2 minutes ago, renton said:

Well, I guess the thing is we don't know how long immunity lasts, and at the same time wasn't the seroprevelance in the UK generally only about 5-6%? Then again that measures antibodies, so might miss immunity due to other factors (T-Cells etc.) 

Herd immunity might be anything from 20 to 60% depending on who's methodology you use.

I suspect this break might be an opportunity to try and reduce mixing while the Uni hall infections burn themselves out. Then try and drag down infection rates by continuing a ban on indoor socialising for at least a month after that.

I think Vallance and Whitty said the seroprevelance was 8%, maybe up to about 20% in London.

There is a massive North-South divide in England if you look at where the outbreaks are.  Was the South hit harder in March?

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2 minutes ago, renton said:

Well, I guess the thing is we don't know how long immunity lasts, and at the same time wasn't the seroprevelance in the UK generally only about 5-6%? Then again that measures antibodies, so might miss immunity due to other factors (T-Cells etc.)  ...

My guess is that if you are a policy maker in Whitehall you take note of Sweden's cumulative mortality curve being similar to the UK's then conclude that means the "second wave" after opening up shouldn't be all that drastic. Keep announcing some extra lockdown measures along the way until it peaks to make it look like you are in control and aren't simply letting rip and hope the initial assumption was correct...

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2 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think Vallance and Whitty said the seroprevelance was 8%, maybe up to about 20% in London.

There is a massive North-South divide in England if you look at where the outbreaks are.  Was the South hit harder in March?

Inverclyde got hammered at the start and I don't think early on they were doing a great deal of testing and our numbers have been really low recently compared to the rest of the west/central belt. Hopefully we have all built up immunity and just put it down to bad kebabs or dodgy pipes in the pub.

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3 minutes ago, Szamo's_Ammo said:

Have family in Canada and they have seen cases surge in the last 6 weeks. They were doing very well before that. Quebec has seen some restrictions return in the last few days.

 

Interesting albeit unsurprising reading. Do you know if nail bars are open in Quebec?

 

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Aye because locking up the most vulnerable and marginalised in society will improve their mental health no end.
You can save every job. Westminster could easily save every job nonsense to suggest otherwise. It's a political decision they have decided that every job isn't worth saving and it's their job to make that decision.


Yes its not ideal but not doing this you are effectively creating more issues by locking down the whole of the country.

The only way you could save every job is by opening up the country but people moan about that as well. Either that or they rack up so much debt that it completely fucks the economy for generations to come which then creates additional issues via unemployment, mental health etc
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29 minutes ago, renton said:

It may well be general compliance to the rules, but the Scottish Gov evidence paper - which is by no means watertight in terms of methodology - suggests that infections  due to family or friends gatherings (i.e. indoor socialising) has dropped since those restrictions went in. 

On the other hand infections from hospitality have continued at the same level or slightly increased, and then there was the huge increase due to Uni Student halls.

It may well be a timing thing, I.e. cases were starting to plateau at the very least before the students came back, which just was a shot in the arm, so to speak, for the virus.

It may also be that compliance around isolation is not as rigorous as you might like.

It may still be a massive undetected prevelance in our school system.

I think that mask wearing is ineffective and the Swedes are right that it introduced complacency and extra contact between hands and face. Cloth masks especially do nothing.

In the gym I'm putting on/taking off my mask a dozen times in a hour. It's completely pointless. 

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1 minute ago, Detournement said:

I think that mask wearing is ineffective and the Swedes are right that it introduced complacency and extra contact between hands and face. Cloth masks especially do nothing.

In the gym I'm putting on/taking off my mask a dozen times in a hour. It's completely pointless. 

I'm not convinced wearing a mask does any significant good, but I'm sure it doesn't do any harm despite what the Swedes are saying. As for masks in gyms, I suppose it's like masks in restaurants/bars - probably pointless but there are plenty of other places where wearing one might be beneficial.  

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Sturgeon's Covid v flu table doing the rounds this morning is absolutely wild. Comparing the apple of every single death certificate with Covid scrawled on it as an attributable factor to the orange of direct causal deaths of flu complications, which is indeed in the several hundreds each year. But the relevant figure for comparison - deaths attributable to flu - is estimated at 30,000 or so each year depending on the severity of the outbreak.

A former health minister spinning that flu only kills less than a thousand people each year in October at the peak of the flu vaccination drive for short-term political cover is nothing short of disgraceful. The pushback against yesterday seems to be tipping her and her advisors over the edge now.

Edited by vikingTON
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25 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think Vallance and Whitty said the seroprevelance was 8%, maybe up to about 20% in London.

There is a massive North-South divide in England if you look at where the outbreaks are.  Was the South hit harder in March?

It really is a strange one as the majority of London seems to be one of the best areas in the country. 

I've seen people point to the Universities and movement of people for the problems in Scotland and the likes of Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle, however London has more colleges and Universities than anywhere and it also has the largest movement of people by an absolute distance coupled with the fact that they have many more of the "at risk" ethnic population.

Who knows, maybe it'a a question of timing or maybe they were hit harder initially and have more natural resistance now or maybe it's a combination of many things which we don't understand yet ???

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3 hours ago, Jambomo said:

The point was that if you increase the instance of the disease in society then it massively increases the likelihood of those delivery people carrying it and potentially passing it on when delivering etc. Likewise care assistants in care homes etc. The PPE and hand washing measures aren’t some magic barrier that prevents it spreading, they can restrict it but it’s unlikely that it will completely prevent any spread.

 

 

What evidence is there that a delivery driver is infecting people with a two second interaction and how is this a worse risk than letting wee Senga use her free bus pass to go down to Tesco to get her messages and a coffee because that's what she always does?

The current restrictions do not even remotely protect vulnerable people from risk, so to claim that they're going to be facing greater risk by having far fewer interactions in shielding is nonsense.

Quote

I posted it earlier, I saw this at work the other day so there may be other studies out there now with other figures. The key one for me was the study showing out of 100 cases, 78 having abnormal MRI scans. I think that could potentially be significant. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1473-3099(20)30701-5

A 100 person study of anything is not statistically significant. 

Quote

I don’t get what point you are trying to make with you last comment. The restrictions are on the grounds of trying to prevent the spread of the virus. For all reasons, not just so people don’t die. We are currently living with the virus so it has everything to do with it.

No they're not. If that was the aim then they'd be locking down all travel now, all schools as well and going all the way back to March. Prevention is not on the table here. 

There is already widespread community transmission and so the 'strategy' - as our gormless chief dentist summed it up a few days ago - is instead to 'buy time'. They want to slow down the spread but know fine well that shutting pubs will not bring cases back down - the second wave is already here and baked into their policy.

The only issue then is whether we continue the folly of pretending that everyone is just as equally at risk, or focus on keeping vulnerable groups and not tanking the entire economy again.

Edited by vikingTON
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35 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think Vallance and Whitty said the seroprevelance was 8%, maybe up to about 20% in London.

There is a massive North-South divide in England if you look at where the outbreaks are.  Was the South hit harder in March?

London was hit far harder in March/April than anywhere else. Part of the reason Cummings got people angry was because he was essentially transporting the virus from a hotspot to an area where it barely existed.

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Guest Bob Mahelp
12 minutes ago, virginton said:

Sturgeon's Covid v flu table doing the rounds this morning is absolutely wild. Comparing the apple of every single death certificate with Covid scrawled on it as an attributable factor to the orange of direct causal deaths of flu complications, which is indeed in the several hundreds each year. But the relevant figure for comparison - deaths attributable to flu - is estimated at 30,000 or so each year depending on the severity of the outbreak.

A former health minister spinning that flu is only kills less than a thousand people each year in October at the peak of the flu vaccination drive for short-term political cover is nothing short of disgraceful. The pushback against yesterday seems to be tipping her and her advisors over the edge now.

It does worry me that the Scottish government...despite what they say...have become 100% re-active, rather than pro-active. 

I've nothing to back up this up, but it smells like they're simply twisting statistics to back up the actions they're taking. 

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