Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 

 

All of these cases were picked up outside of schools unless you can prove otherwise!

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 

 

Would almost certainly be driven by University halls of residence, no?

[Szamo's_Ammo]

4 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 

 

That must be some mistake!?

3 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

31 minutes ago, Szamo said:

Just because a larger percentage of school pupils aren't being tested or testing positive for the virus, doesn't mean they aren't causing a huge increase in transmission.
For example, asymptomatic pupils going to the local bakers at lunch time, breathing on the glass when deciding what they want and wee Winnie comes in half an hour later for her French fancy, touches the glass and contracts the virus. Would all of the hundreds of school pupils who had been in the bakery the previous week be tested?
There are thousands of scenarios you could think of where school pupils being out and about on public transport, in shops, etc, more than they would be if the blended learning model wasn't scrapped which will be leading to a surge in cases.
Then there are parents and school staff mingling with each other. I doubt there is much social distancing at the school gates. 
Since the schools went back, cases have gone up to 5 times the level they were at previously. Whilst the increase isn't solely down to schools, you're being disingenuous if you pretend that their reopening has had very little impact.

Total whataboutery. That scenario could occur in any shop anywhere whether schools were populated or not. You can only go by the stats available when making decisions not made up wee fairytales. That is literally an argument to support a full lockdown which I assume you approve of.

[Billy Jean King]

^^^ has 2 weans

Nope 1 of school age and only just at that as 6th year so not an personal thing but through work I do come into contact with sectors of the community where you know the kids would suffer in varying different ways if there was any semblance of out of school learning that would invariably come with blended models. Some people on here seem to live very sheltered lives or in Ivory Towers not to be able to see this.

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

12 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

^^^ has 2 weans

Nope 1 of school age and only just at that as 6th year so not an personal thing but through work I do come into contact with sectors of the community where you know the kids would suffer in varying different ways if there was any semblance of out of school learning that would invariably come with blended models. Some people on here seem to live very sheltered lives or in Ivory Towers not to be able to see this.

My opinion is that schools should be the last thing to close other than essential shops or hospitals because of 1) impact on kids eduction and 2) impact to parents' time and employment.

Stop pretending there is zero transmission in schools. My issue is with messaging. Sturgeon seems to have softened on this a bit over the last week or so but we still get people on here such as yourself squealing about "proof" or "evidence" and kidding on it is risk free. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Marshmallo

[WhiteRoseKillie]

29 minutes ago, Al B said:

Empty seat in front of you, behind you, to the right, to the left, each diagonal  and the one your arse is in.

That is not only 9 seats, but is also the lyrics to the novelty single mentioned earlier.

Edit: Actually you make a fair point, theres an overlap in empty seats in that the same empty seat will be counted for multiple people.

It's still not financially viable to operate a full stadium on those numbers though.

Sorry if my post seemed flippant, mate. Your lot are kind of in the same as mine (we're just short of 18000, I think). Brighter/more anal minds than ours have done the sums, taking into account distancing and closer proximity for "bubbles", and come up with a figure of 25-30% occupancy for sports grounds. I know RP is pretty simple in terms of the shape of the environment - what's Fir park like?

On those figures, Killie could get in about 4500-5000 fans, Motherwell about 3400-4100. One assumes catering wouldn't operate, and Ican see issues with our club shop. I'd suggest that we could survive on these figures, but not prosper.

[VladimirMooc]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

The snippy parent brigade wanting literally every single other activity binned with the exception of their state childcare is as bad as the gammons voting for Brexit/Tories in 'so long as ahm okay' arsehole stakes. 

Describing the education system as “state childcare” and decrying others as Tories in the same sentence. Hmm. 

[Billy Jean King]

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 
 

The last 7 days saw 1993 cases of those 72 were in ages 5-14 with a further 322 15-19 so a fair chunk of those not school kids. To put into proper perspective the same period saw 655 cases for 25-44yo and 517 for 45-64 yo. As I have pointed out now several times not the driving vector you portray and thankfully for the kids sakes both Govts can see this.

[Billy Jean King]

My opinion is that schools should be the last thing to close other than essential shops or hospitals because of 1) impact on kids eduction and 2) impact to parents' time and employment.
Stop pretending there is zero transmission in schools. My issue is with messaging. Sturgeon seems to have softened on this a bit over the last week or so but we still get people on here such as yourself squealing about "proof" or "evidence" and kidding on it is risk free. 

I'm quoting infection rates so kidding no one that there is no infection or spread, just that it's not the driver some make out

[Hedgecutter]

11 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

From today's briefing it is even more obvious that she is absolutely gagging to shut down hospitality. 

If she does then publishers might finally start taking my latest book that bit more seriously in the run up to winter.

[Marshmallo]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

15 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 
 

The last 7 days saw 1993 cases of those 72 were in ages 5-14 with a further 322 15-19 so a fair chunk of those not school kids. To put into proper perspective the same period saw 655 cases for 25-44yo and 517 for 45-64 yo. As I have pointed out now several times not the driving vector you portray and thankfully for the kids sakes both Govts can see this.

A KID COULD BE ASYMPTOMATIC (MEANING THEY AREN'T TESTED) AND PASSING IT ON TO A FAMILY MEMBER WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND

[renton]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

My opinion is that schools should be the last thing to close other than essential shops or hospitals because of 1) impact on kids eduction and 2) impact to parents' time and employment.

Stop pretending there is zero transmission in schools. My issue is with messaging. Sturgeon seems to have softened on this a bit over the last week or so but we still get people on here such as yourself squealing about "proof" or "evidence" and kidding on it is risk free. 

Nothing is risk free, there is certainly no social contact that has a zero percent chance of transmission, but at the same time it appears that children mixing in schools is not a significant transmission vector.

In the links I shared on the previous page there is a clear link between age and infection. Some of it may be lower intrinsic susceptibility to infection, some of it may be that children are more asymptomatic or lightly symptomatic which would make it harder for kids to pass on sufficient viral load to infect others. One of the studies I linked to showed that more than 90% of children infected were not the primary index case: an adult had infected them instead of the other way round.

Either way, various studies suggest that children mixing in classrooms is not a significant driver. That may well become less true with increasing age, indeed is likely. Definitely the case that Uni halls of residence are driving some infection clusters now, so maybe there is a case for blended learning in the very top school age groups, while allowing nurseries, primary schools and the lower half of secondary schools to continue as normal.

However, the idea that there is a grand conspiracy to dampen the impact of children on Covid infection rates on behalf of nippy parents is silly. The idea that the public health authorities are too stupid to see the relevant patterns in the data strike me as equally incredulous. This is a global issue, and there is enough variance in school years and provisions even across Europe alone that would them stand out, if they truly were the main driver.

[Richey Edwards]

 

[Paco]

My son's childminder has tested positive, so we (me, wife and son) are isolating at home (although to be honest my son is the only one who actually has to isolate). Until any one of us develops symptoms though, we are not entitled to a test, which I find odd. Particularly in my son's case as he's been in close proximity with a positive case for several hours at a time.

Any anxiety on this is understandable but like a lot of things, this is a resource issue. If 50 school kids test positive on any given day, then immediately ~1500 school kids need tested as they’ve been in close proximity to a known positive. Plus there’s any additional parents/grandparents/childminders to throw on top. That’d be somewhere in the region of 20% of the testing capacity swallowed by 50 positives.

Get a test if there’s symptoms. You could be a good P&B case study given the discussion of kids and whether they’re common carriers.

[Billy Jean King]

A KID COULD BE ASYMPTOMATIC (MEANING THEY AREN'T TESTED) AND PASSING IT ON TO A FAMILY MEMBER WHAT IS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND

Of course they could but no more so than anyone else who goes out the front door of a morning or goes to a pub as has been shown (in spite of places supposedly being Covid secure) with workplace outbreaks. The same risk would apply with blended learning for the periods the kids were in school. It all boils down to assessing risk. Halls of residence seem to be massive spreading environments too but we can't shut everywhere with risk unless we go to another lockdown.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Because in the middle of a global pandemic it's obviously better to 'keep the weans in a normal routine' by shoving them into crowded indoor spaces for 30 hours per week and put the health of themselves, their family as well as the people actually working in the school at risk. 

This is all utter nonsense. 

Tell me how you screen share when:

 

a) a pupil does not have access to a computer?

 

b) they do have access but at staggered times throughout the day because other siblings or parent are using the family computer?

 

You really don't have a clue.

 

[welshbairn]

The rapid spike in infections amongst the age group most likely to have kids at school looked significant to me on the face of it. This was a good while after the pubs opened.

[EdinburghPar1975]

22 minutes ago, Have some faith in Magic said:

119 of the 383 cases in Scotland yesterday were in the 19 or under age category. 

 

Not really surprised. The local shop up the road from me is mobbed with High School kids between about 12.30 and 2, absolutely rammed. I know that the 15 minute connection thing is supposed to be one of the 'key' things but huge groups like that cannot help...how are schools supposed to deal with that?

Hearing about the student halls from friends kids who're there also kind of indicated that there were issues there. 

No idea what can 'actually' slow this down again but to me stopping the household mixing would help given the likelihood that folks are more likely to let down their guard and sit closer for longer periods. Something better work or it ain't going to be looking good in a few weeks...

[coprolite]

1 hour ago, Al B said:

If we round the capacity of my club's ground to 13,500, and accept that to maintain social distancing there has to be one empty seat to the side of you in each direction, plus the one you're sitting in, thats 9 seats per person.

That means the absolute maximum crowd we could have, using every available part of the stadium, is 1,500.

We'd be out of business within 5 games. It's absolutely pointless.

I'm sure this has been raised on here before. Each of those seats around a person are also around another person, unless they are on the edge of a bloc. 

It's (broadly speaking) four seats per person. 

[Robin.Hood]

Covid-19 dogs started their work today at the Helsinki Airport at arrival hall 2B. Dogs have been trained to detect the coronavirus from the test wipes given by the testperson. Service is voluntary and primarily targeted for passengers arriving from abroad.