Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

3 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

virginton is primarily concerned with status. His ferocious streams of posting on here have concentrated on attacks on groups who have received some level of recognition during the current crisis - supermarket workers, public health officials, the careers clap and now teachers. There’s certainly a lot to criticise about many of those groups (although I doubt many people had “Tesco shelf stackers” as an obvious target for trolling) but the consistency of the targeting is what’s interesting. Any group who receives praise and recognition has to be knocked down, it’s a zero sum game.

One thing that’s really fascinating is the introduction in the last few posts of insulting people based on their degree (“Desmond here” etc). This is a real indication of the underlying motivations And bitterness behind this. How can a shelf stacker receive any recognition above me? They don’t even have a higher educations! Teachers, pah! most of them barely scraped a 2:1. This thinking is something you occasionally see among people who are high achievers educationally, particularly those who do so in subjects or areas that don’t have direct career paths, for example PPE or History. It’s driven by the underlying knowledge that all their intelligence and achievements does guarantee a satisfying or rewarding (financially or otherwise) life. the kids at school who picked on them and now work as tradesmen probably have more money and happiness.

Nietzsche wrote that the emotion he called “Ressentiment” was the result of reassigning your pain and sense of inferiority onto an external force or enemy and then pickling your personality around that resentment and pain. He also said that the highest calling for a man was to “become who you are” - sadly for the people who exhibit these tendencies the niggling resentments and imagined slights prevent this from ever happening with “become who you feel you deserve to be based on your early to mid education” being a poor substitute.

Tl; dr.

[die hard doonhamer]

If Scottish labour took a pro-independence stance, or even a pro-referendum stance rather than full pro-indy, then they should be a credible threat to the SNP. I vote SNP in every election (other than those with a list vote, in which case I tend to put Greens on the list), as the overriding motivation to vote is to achieve an independent Scotland. Labour should represent the centre left, which is where a huge swathe of the indy movement sits. They've missed a trick not capitalising on that.

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think you are right on both points.

It would be nice if the SNP were given a good shake in the election next year on the back of the way they have handled every step of this, but that won't happen.

You say you support the SNP so presumably you want independence. Anything less than a convincing win in the Holyrood election, the bigger the better, would put indy on the back burner into the never never.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, welshbairn said:

You say you support the SNP so presumably you want independence. Anything less than a convincing win in the Holyrood election, the bigger the better, would put indy on the back burner into the never never.

I absolutely appreciate that. Which is why i'm getting so frustrated with the only party that offers people like myself a route to independence.

[Rodhull]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

True.

However Scottish Labour, for example, could produce a manifesto that was absolutely outstanding, but due to their position as a unionist party they have no chance.

Scotland needs, at least in Holyrood, a second pro-independence party to enable the SNP to face any real opposition.

I've said before I support the SNP. But that doesn't mean I can't see they are perhaps getting a little too comfortable in assuming Scotland will support them blindly.

Ultimately I think that is true but I think the position the SNP models themselves on (moderate centre left-ish) doesn't leave a lot of room for another party. Greens just aren't going to have mass appeal and only other parties seem to be fringe ones like a Wings party.

[pandarilla]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18512374.common-weals-blueprint-new-scotland-grounded-reality/

Common weal have released phase 1 of their economic recovery plan.

Main ideas :

- transforming the economy doesn't need major state subsidy, any subsidies should be handed to the public in the form of vouchers

- every Scottish person should receive £100 voucher for a Scottish hotel /hospitality venue

- the Scottish national investment bank should be given the powers to be a real bank, allowing it to support small to medium sized business ideas in Scotland

- ending the public procurement deal which ties councils and other organizations into using a set provider (always a multinational owned outside Scotland). Schools and councils and the like should be able to order from local producers

[ICTChris]

Supporting another independence referendum would probably cost Labour votes.

[pandarilla]

Bollocks. I'm not for a second suggesting I'm some political expert. But tell you what, get yersel to Tesco tonight and ask everyone there "Who's the Scottish Business Secretary" and by and large you'll be met with blank faces. Guaranteed.

Why are you getting defensive?

I was just saying that if you don't know who that is then that shows your ignorance. Plenty of folk on here (and in tesco) have heard of her.

If you're making the point that most Scottish folk are not particularly clued up about Scottish politics then i fully agree. We don't need to go to tesco to prove it.

If you want to be more informed about who's running the country, then do something about it.

[Rodhull]

 

[Thereisalight..]

27 minutes ago, virginton said:

Sturgeon's comments today point to a strategy of trying to eradicate the virus entirely before considering punting their beloved social distancing and countless other restrictions in the bin. Which is absolutely fucking insane. We left the New Zealand style track fully four months ago and we're not going to get back there anytime soon by just staying in Phase 1 or 2. 

What started out as an emergency response to stop critical health services from being overwhelmed has now been turned into an indefinite drive to prevent any single infection from happening. Nobody signed up for that and I wouldn't be surprised to see a turn in public attitudes accordingly.

It makes even more of a mockery about not overwhelming the NHS, when there’s the hospital at the SEC that’s never been used. If this mythical “second wave” ever appeared then the 1000 beds at the SEC would surely be able to cope alone without even having to impact other hospitals 

[Steven W]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

Why are you getting defensive?

I was just saying that if you don't know who that is then that shows your ignorance. Plenty of folk on here (and in tesco) have heard of her.

If you're making the point that most Scottish folk are not particularly clued up about Scottish politics then i fully agree. We don't need to go to tesco to prove it.

If you want to be more informed about who's running the country, then do something about it.

1 - cause you said I was ignorant

2 - I readily accept that's a failing on my part, but I'd be certain I was in the majority. 

I find it odd that in a time of economic collapse, Fiona Hyslop hasn't been more prominent in these daily briefings. (again, maybe I've missed her). I've seen it mentioned here that the SNP doesn't have much 'strength in depth'. They have a high quality leader (although I question some of her judgements just now) but after her there's not much. Maybe that's why I, and most of those in Tesco tonight, haven't heard of Fiona Hyslop?

[Wee Willie]

3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Well yes, me too. But despite claiming they would learn from others, they aren't adapting for here, and we aren't moving forward.

It's like sitting at a junction on your driving test and not moving as you can see a car half a mile away. Their is no risk of the car hitting you if you don't pull out, of course, but sit there long enough and you will fail your test.

No need to apologise btw.

Jeez, that brings back memories of 55 years ago.

Danke

3 hours ago, bendan said:

If there were no downside to waiting and watching, that would be fine. But in reality there's damage being done every week we wait.

But there could be damage if we let loose too soon. As NS said today, they (SG) have to strike a balance and for better or worse the SG make that decision.

3 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I am well aware different people have different priorities, and that's fine.

But I also know (and if i'm wrong I appologise) that you are slightly older than most here, and as such an economic crash, with devastating job losses that will cause people to lose livelihoods and possibly their homes, will have much less of an impact on you.

For most, avoiding that as much as is now possible, is a massive priority and much more pressing than indefinitely protecting an increasingly smaller number of vulnerable people from dying from Covid-19. 

Bless you -  I'm 77 years auld and diabetic since at least 2008 so I accept we all have different views on this Covid-19 virus.

But as NS said today, she, and her government were elected to make the decisions and that is what they are doing.

38 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I think you are right on both points.

It would be nice if the SNP were given a good shake in the election next year on the back of the way they have handled every step of this, but that won't happen.

I ken you've answered this elsewhere but you are posting too many posts for me tae keep up but the ONLY alternative to voting SNP is to vote for a unionist party.

24 minutes ago, Steven W said:

Correct (again).

I can't remember the last time I didn't vote SNP (couple of decades ago I'd guess). And despite all this, I'll probably do so at the next election.

But I've still got enough about me to question what's going on here and not necessarily support the policies because of who they came from.

Surely voting SNP is to simply get independence. Then you vote for whatever party you want. In my case it would be the leftmost one (provided they stood in my part of the country).

23 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

True.

However Scottish Labour, for example, could produce a manifesto that was absolutely outstanding, but due to their position as a unionist party they have no chance.

Scotland needs, at least in Holyrood, a second pro-independence party to enable the SNP to face any real opposition.

I've said before I support the SNP. But that doesn't mean I can't see they are perhaps getting a little too comfortable in assuming Scotland will support them blindly.

As I wrote up above voting SNP is solely about independence then we go our separate ways.

15 minutes ago, die hard doonhamer said:

If Scottish labour took a pro-independence stance, or even a pro-referendum stance rather than full pro-indy, then they should be a credible threat to the SNP. I vote SNP in every election (other than those with a list vote, in which case I tend to put Greens on the list), as the overriding motivation to vote is to achieve an independent Scotland. Labour should represent the centre left, which is where a huge swathe of the indy movement sits. They've missed a trick not capitalising on that.

Can you really see the Scottish Labour party taking a pro-independence stance? They would have to give up their slavish acceptance of Trident in Scottish waters.

Also being a creditable (your words) threat to the SNP would surely allow unionist parties a way in at an election.

[Detournement]

27 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

Supporting another independence referendum would probably cost Labour votes.

Even if they tank they are still doing a public service by preventing the Tories from having a complete monopoly on the constitutional status quo.

[Donathan]

My girlfriend is a teacher and has had her feet up since lockdown started.

[Todd_is_God]

29 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

Surely voting SNP is to simply get independence. Then you vote for whatever party you want.

Yes. But in the 12 years or so they have been the largest party in Scotland they haven't achieved that, and it's arguably further away now than it was in 2014.

They have an end game of independence, but also a day job in running Scotland until then.

This is the first time they have really been asked a big question. When it was just about looking and communicating better than WM they absolutely smashed that because that is what they are best at. Now the focus has switched to them stepping up and leading Scotland, making big decisions along the way that they cannot blame on WM if they don't work, and they are floundering.

They are fortunate that distrust of BJ is so high that they can get away with being ridiculously slow, despite the fact that England too is seeing cases and deaths drop.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Ron Aldo]

Yes. But in the 12 years or so they have been the largest party in Scotland they haven't achieved that, and it's arguably further away now than it was in 2014.
They have an end game of independence, but also a day job in running Scotland until then.
This is the first time they have really been asked a big question. When it was just about looking and communicating better than WM they absolutely smashed that because that is what they are best at. Now the focus has switched to them stepping up and leading Scotland, making big decisions along the way that they cannot blame on WM if they don't work, and they are floundering.
They are fortunate that distrust of BJ is so high that they can get away with being ridiculously slow, despite the fact that England too is seeing cases and deaths drop.

Spot on.

As an SNP voter I still have a lack of confidence in them when it comes to making big decisions. Throughout this pandemic, they've have had a perfect opportunity to make some tough decisions and to show some real leadership - something which might have converted some previous no voters to yes voters (in the event of a second referendum, obviously).

Instead, the SG's entire plan seems to be to sit a couple of weeks behind England and see what does/doesn't work down there. Other than communicating things a bit better than WM, they haven't really shown any initiative as far as I can tell.

[bendan]

39 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

But there could be damage if we let loose too soon. As NS said today, they (SG) have to strike a balance and for better or worse the SG make that decision.

 

It's true that it's up to them to make the decision, but I really hope they understand what the consequences are.

[Mark Connolly]

4 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Spot on.

As an SNP voter I still have a lack of confidence in them when it comes to making big decisions. Throughout this pandemic, they've have had a perfect opportunity to make some tough decisions and to show some real leadership - something which might have converted some previous no voters to yes voters (in the event of a second referendum, obviously).

Instead, the SG's entire plan seems to be to sit a couple of weeks behind England and see what does/doesn't work down there. Other than communicating things a bit better than WM, they haven't really shown any initiative as far as I can tell.

I see plenty of people making this sort of comment, so I'm interested to know what decisions you think could/should have been taken differently?

[die hard doonhamer]

45 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

Can you really see the Scottish Labour party taking a pro-independence stance? They would have to give up their slavish acceptance of Trident in Scottish waters.

Also being a creditable (your words) threat to the SNP would surely allow unionist parties a way in at an election.

No, I can't see it, unfortunately. If they did, I'd vote for them. It might allow the unionists back in a bit, but I don't think to the extent where they end up in power.

[RH33]

What does virginton actually do for employment?