Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[dirty dingus]

4 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

we threw part qualified doctors and nurses into covid wards so I figure we can probably do the same with schools, get the staff numbers up and spread the workload more fairly. Why reduce it to retired teachers who might understandably not want to go near 30 coughing children for the next year or so?

Here's a thought, they can maybe choose not to volunteer.

[D.A.F.C]

Teachers, who's teachers?
Save me teachers.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

It's Fraser Nelson. Of course it's bollocks. 

He is a stain on the good name of Nairn.

[Diamonds are Forever]

8 hours ago, welshbairn said:

What you say about Sweden doesn't explain this.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/11/sweden-coronavirus-312838

 

My last paragraph explicitly stated that I was not arguing against lockdowns completely, so I'm not sure what this is meant to prove. As I said, I think lockdowns definitely have a role to play assuming they are done early enough, and properly.

The issue I was responding to was the statement that 10 weeks after imposing a lockdown it is suppressing the number of cases, and whether it is currently serving any purpose. No evidence has been given to support this claim and most from other countries contradicts it. The most obvious one that everyone seems keen to avoid is that despite countries reducing lockdown measures the number of cases have not been rising. How does this make sense if lockdown is holding back a wave of cases?

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

Me during the summer, while furious parents demand I be in school helping their little darlings catch up, despite the fact they completed little to none of the work set during lockdown.

[dirty dingus]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

what happens to your great plan when they all say "no"?

Well maybe ask them first before jumping to conclusions, the health care sector seemed to have no problem getting folk to sign up.

[Sergeant Wilson]

Teachers are the backbone of this country. FACT!

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

My last paragraph explicitly stated that I was not arguing against lockdowns completely, so I'm not sure what this is meant to prove. As I said, I think lockdowns definitely have a role to play assuming they are done early enough, and properly.

The issue I was responding to was the statement that 10 weeks after imposing a lockdown it is suppressing the number of cases, and whether it is currently serving any purpose. No evidence has been given to support this claim and most from other countries contradicts it. The most obvious one that everyone seems keen to avoid is that despite countries reducing lockdown measures the number of cases have not been rising. How does this make sense if lockdown is holding back a wave of cases?

Experiences vary. Lets hope we don't follow Arizona's.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/arizona-coronavirus-us-covid19-doug-ducey

[Diamonds are Forever]

1 hour ago, SJP79 said:

The evidence is in the statistics, it worked the curve was flattened and is now decreasing. 

 

Where is the evidence that the curve 'was flattened' because of lockdown? Just because they happened at roughly the same time does not mean one caused the other, that's pretty basic stuff.

How come Norway's peak occurred before their lockdown and they were already declining? Data is coming out which shows the UK may have been the same.

And why are countries not seeing a spike in cases as they release lockdown given that 'their cases are low because if lockdown'?

Countries aren't going to admit that extended lockdowns aren't really effective because doing so would be an admission that they've ruined the economy for no reason. There needs to be much greater scrutiny on whether it is an appropriate measure medium-long term so when the next one hits we respond appropriately.

 

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Experiences vary. Lets hope we don't follow Arizona's.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/arizona-coronavirus-us-covid19-doug-ducey

We never averaged 400 cases at our peak, never mind now.

Adjusted for population differences, they eased restrictions at similar numbers to our absolute peak.

The two are not comparable

[Diamonds are Forever]

4 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Experiences vary. Lets hope we don't follow Arizona's.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/11/arizona-coronavirus-us-covid19-doug-ducey

 

Similar to Iran, it seems that's down to more testing. That's another thing to factor in, that almost every country is seeing declines despite vast increases in testing and more cases being 'caught'.

The key figure will be deaths, if deaths increase as a result then that is evidence to contradict what I'm saying.

However, at the moment I think European nations are the most appropriate comparison for us as most went into lockdown at roughly the same time and are more similar geographically to us than Arizona or Iran.

Like my response to SJP above says, I'm not really arguing for or against anything, I'm just questioning some assumptions which don't appear to me (although I'm clearly not an expert!) to tie with data that is being released.

It is crucial that the effectiveness of lockdown at all stages is properly discussed so when the next pandemic hits we take the right action.

[RH33]

1 hour ago, super_carson said:

It's going to be a very tricky start to the term, definitely.  We've been signed up for bereavement training, as well as emotions talks.  Normally we would change classes each year but that's been kept to a minimum to help the kids with some consistency and pastoral care next session will be more important than normal. 

I’ve said from the start that where possible I really ppe my kids school does this. My son is behind the curve with language Due to dyslexia and hadn’t read in 2.5 years. He hit his million word accelerated reading goal couple weeks ago.

It’s also their first year at this school as their other one went to the dogs. So to have the same outstanding teacher he’s had this year really would help with the transition to high school. 

[Wee Willie]

12 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Let me preface this by saying I have voted for the SNP for years.

Some of the cheerleading on social media is embarassing.

To a large percentage of SNP supporters, the party can do no wrong.

Then I apologise.

That's no the same as saying NS would say black was white and most supporters would agree.

12 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

There is a middle ground between opening everything up, especially when it's not really been beaten back, and being reasonably cautious without stagnating.

If it was WM keeping the restrictions in place up here in the current picture people would be tearing strips off of them.

Of course there is a middle ground but who is to say what that is?

I would prefer to take things slowly and open up society gradually.

Ca' canny  is the watchword.

9 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

I

No idea why the SG cannot look to a success story and see what is working and, more importantly, why and then tailor that to here.

 

That's what I've been saying all along. Take it easy and watch what other countries are doing then adapt for here.

[Todd_is_God]

24 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

That's what I've been saying all along. Take it easy and watch what other countries are doing then adapt for here.

Well yes, me too. But despite claiming they would learn from others, they aren't adapting for here, and we aren't moving forward.

It's like sitting at a junction on your driving test and not moving as you can see a car half a mile away. Their is no risk of the car hitting you if you don't pull out, of course, but sit there long enough and you will fail your test.

No need to apologise btw.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[bendan]

26 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

 

That's what I've been saying all along. Take it easy and watch what other countries are doing then adapt for here.

If there were no downside to waiting and watching, that would be fine. But in reality there's damage being done every week we wait.

[Todd_is_God]

32 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

I would prefer to take things slowly and open up society gradually.

I am well aware different people have different priorities, and that's fine.

But I also know (and if i'm wrong I appologise) that you are slightly older than most here, and as such an economic crash, with devastating job losses that will cause people to lose livelihoods and possibly their homes, will have much less of an impact on you.

For most, avoiding that as much as is now possible, is a massive priority and much more pressing than indefinitely protecting an increasingly smaller number of vulnerable people from dying from Covid-19. 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[Guest SJP79]

1 hour ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Where is the evidence that the curve 'was flattened' because of lockdown? Just because they happened at roughly the same time does not mean one caused the other, that's pretty basic stuff.

How come Norway's peak occurred before their lockdown and they were already declining? Data is coming out which shows the UK may have been the same.

And why are countries not seeing a spike in cases as they release lockdown given that 'their cases are low because if lockdown'?

Countries aren't going to admit that extended lockdowns aren't really effective because doing so would be an admission that they've ruined the economy for no reason. There needs to be much greater scrutiny on whether it is an appropriate measure medium-long term so when the next one hits we respond appropriately.

 

So in your opinion why did the number of cases drop if it was'nt the lockdown what was it ?

[bendan]

3 minutes ago, SJP79 said:

So in your opinion why did the number of cases drop if it was'nt the lockdown what was it ?

I think part of the problem is that 'lockdown' isn't a clearly defined term. We were already social distancing to a significant extent long before March 23, people were washing hands much more, lots of people were working from home.

[Steven W]

11 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I am well aware different people have different priorities, and that's fine.

But I also know (and if i'm wrong I appologise) that you are slightly older than most here, and as such an economic crash, with devastating job losses that will cause people to lose livelihoods and possibly their homes, will have much less of an impact on you.

For most, avoiding that as much as is now possible, is a massive priority and much more pressing than indefinitely protecting an increasingly smaller number of vulnerable people from dying from Covid-19. 

That's the nuts and bolts of it.

At the outset, health was the priority and the economy could wait for another day. However, as time has progressed the health situation has improved and the economy has deteriorated badly. Now is the time to give the economy some help before it becomes every bit as bad a crisis as Covid-19 was at its peak.

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, super_carson said:

Unfortunately many people seem to think that direct teaching is the only part of the job. They don't take into account planning, marking, professional learning, curriculum development, school improvement, moderation sessions etc. That is all still going on just now.

Added to that many teachers are having to take on extra responsibilities. For example I've been working in hub schools, trying to create a functioning school website for parents to access information, provide IT training to less technically minded colleagues, driving around with food packages and resources for low income households and lots of other small jobs.

Even if we were all skiving b*****ds (and hey, I'm not naive enough to say no one is skiving) it should be considering against the hours of unpaid overtime each week due to the workload.

There are people are not teachers and who have never been professional teachers that seem to think they know everything based on arrogance and anecdotal evidence. They think the amount of time a child spends on schoolwork is the same as their teacher.
 

Condensing that woe is me pish into the two critical points here:

1) Lesson planning and professional development time are within the terms of the contract that you both freely signed up to and want to protect at all costs. You don't get to count it as double while you aren't actually doing the core tasks, nice try though.

2) The only people deploying 'arrogance and personal anecdotes' in this debate are teachers themselves, furious that the independent and fact-based findings of the Children's Commissioner have busted their convenient wee jolly/hero narrative. That they think that an account of how many embryos they and everyone that they know are sweating right now trumps a comprehensive study showing how piss-poor the student workload has been during lockdown explains why so many of them ended up with 2:1s or Desmonds in the first place and their inevitable career choice from there.

Edited June 12, 2020 by vikingTON