Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DeeTillEhDeh]

A&E visits are down almost 50%, hospital deaths are lower than at any point in the last 5 years, and deaths at home are higher.
It's not a stretch to suggest some of those home deaths may not have occurred had people visited a hospital.

In hindsight expert mode again.

Anyone watching (especially the elderly and those with underlying health conditions) those horrific videos from Italy at the start of the crisis would have thought "f**k me - I'm not going near a hospital".

Can you blame them?

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

Services aren't up and running for the majority of departments.  

f**k knows where the staff are or what they're doing but the referrals are just sitting there for when it all gets up and running again.

Some ops are still getting done that are deemed urgent by whatever criteria they're using but its few and far between.

 

Thankfully the staff dealing with me aren't stuck in one of the temporary massive Covid sheds watching Netflix, had excellent continuation of care.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

In hindsight expert mode again.

Not at all. The poster was suggesting VT was talking pish and was looking for some facts.

Last week, 44 more people died at home for non covid-19 related reasons than did the week restrictions started.

These deaths are not taken in to account when assessing whether or not to ease restrictions.

[RH33]

32 minutes ago, Tynierose said:

Correct.  The majority of referrals from the start of March are still sitting unprocessed 

We're continually kicking people down the line  as there is no way for them to get them seen at present.

And yes a lot of patients aren't presenting now until it's way too late.

The mental health crisis that will come from the prolonged lockdown is and will be massive.

Talking to a GP colleague today who is eminently sensible and usually on the button who thinks it will take a decade for the NHS to recover from this and get back to where we were if  ever.

Two metres though eh...

 

 

I’ve had 21 years of mental health issues. There was no capacity at the best of times at community or inpatient level. The last twice I’ve needed acute inpatient I’ve sat for hours waiting for a bed.

 

[Wee Willie]

33 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Given we have been 'locked down' for 10 weeks and people are still dying, i'm not sure it has been proven that they are avoidable.

What has been proven is that less cases will lead to less deaths. But that is obvious.

We are at a stage now in Scotland where the majority are happy to stay restricted purely on the basis it is not what WM & the Tories are doing rather than whether or not they feel it's proportionate. I won't use the term brainwashed as that would be OTT, but there is definitely an "us v them" mentality rather than focusing on what is and isn't safe or feasible in Scotland. It leads to a situation where BJ & NS could both ease the same restriction, with BJ being reckless to do so and NS right.

It's very strange atm in Scotland where if BJ says black is black and NS said it was in fact white, a large number of SNP supporters would agree with her.

Whit a load of shite! How dae ye work that out?

Don't ye think it would be the opposite and NS would say black is black and BoJo would say naw it isnae.

27 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

For me, if there is a fundamental failure it is in pandemic planning itself - that isn't a Scottish Government responsibility but the UK government - it's they who ignored the recommendations of Cygnus - it is they who downscaled pandemic planning....

Almost all this have there roots in chronic underfunding driven by HM Treasury decisions...

Let's ask be honest - some attacks on the Scottish Government (and the UK government) are motivated, not by making government accountable, but by sheer political opportunism and mischief-making.

I know some might not agree but I don't think things are as black and white as some are making out.

 

See whit's his name above

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Not at all. The poster was suggesting VT was talking pish and was looking for some facts.
Last week, 44 more people died at home for non covid-19 related reasons than did the week restrictions started.
These deaths are not taken in to account when assessing whether or not to ease restrictions.

Where did you refer to that in the poist I quoted?

[Aubrey Maturin]

1 minute ago, RH33 said:

I’ve had 21 years of mental health issues. There was no capacity at the best of times at community or inpatient level. The last twice I’ve needed acute inpatient I’ve sat for hours waiting for a bed.

 

Mental health provision in this country is a joke and has been for as long as I can remember.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Where did you refer to that in the poist I quoted?

I quoted him

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, Wee Willie said:

Whit a load of shite! How dae ye work that out?

Let me preface this by saying I have voted for the SNP for years.

Some of the cheerleading on social media is embarassing.

To a large percentage of SNP supporters, the party can do no wrong.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I quoted him [emoji848]

I was responding to your 50% drop in A&E admissions - nothing else.

[madwullie]

2 hours ago, Thereisalight.. said:

Of course, but of the countries that have been out of lockdown for weeks now I don’t recall any having the mythical “second wave”

The US is all over the place, especially in states where they've just decided to f**k it and go for virtually all out reopening. Arizona, Florida, Oklahoma, Texas etc off the top of my head. Unclear whether its extended first wave or second wave, but they clearly show what happens when you just decide that its safe to open with few precautions. 

Places that are doing better are sticking with harsher measures. 

The reason we're not able (or keen) to balls out open up is because we didn't take it seriously enough in the first place

[Marshmallo]

 

[madwullie]

Something that also needs to be borne in mind with a cavalier approach is that being a novel virus, noone has any idea what the long term effects of having it might be. Some are reporting what could be long term lung damage amongst others. As has been said for months now, it's not the flu that you can always just shrug off with no issues, even a mild dose of this could f**k people for a long time to come.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

In full c**t mode - you just can't help yourself.
 

If by c**t you meant 'fact' then absolutely. Unless you think that the 1 million plus drop in English A and E admissions in April alone was comprised entirely of broken ankles from football training and timewasters not showing up, or that all the cancer symptoms that people aren't bothering the doctor with and won't get an immediate referral for anyway will just get better all by themselves.

The immediate health costs and excess deaths caused by ten weeks of obsessing over Covid are significant.  As will be the long term and ruinous effects caused by tanking the economy with a ridiculously long, diet lockdown. So the premise that a slow emergence is the only way to stop any more lives being lost is a false one. We should absolutely be willing to trade the current or indeed a modest uptake in transmission figures for a near to fully functioning economy and comprehensive health service again.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I quoted him [emoji848]

Well this is him. Viking Ton stated that 'More people are dying right now from the impacts of social isolation'. I never inferred that claim was 'pish', but without evidence to back it up it must remain an assertion. He went on to add that many people are scared to attend hospital right now, which is probably true, as may be your figure of a 50% reduction in admissions, but again it is a bit of a leap to translate that into fatalities without figures to back it up. f**k knows, in the last three months we've had enough sweeping statements to last a lifetime.

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Something that also needs to be borne in mind with a cavalier approach is that being a novel virus, noone has any idea what the long term effects of having it might be. Some are reporting what could be long term lung damage amongst others. As has been said for months now, it's not the flu that you can always just shrug off with no issues, even a mild dose of this could f**k people for a long time to come.

Except that the flu is also associated with a whole host of similar complications and long-term damage to the body, so what is likely happening here is yet more cherry picking of the BIG BAD NEW VIRUS THREAT while ignoring that the same things actually occur with other illnesses:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/symptoms.htm

 

[Todd_is_God]

15 minutes ago, madwullie said:

Places that are doing better are sticking with harsher measures. 

That's bollocks.

Nowhere in Europe has tighter restrictions than Scotland. Cafés, bars, restaurants have been opening across Europe for weeks without a rise in cases whilst we sit at home averaging just 18 (and quite likely 16 this time tomorrow). 25,000 attended a football match in Belgrade yesterday. International travel is even possible from the 15th in places!

We can't enter a house.

There is a middle ground between opening everything up, especially when it's not really been beaten back, and being reasonably cautious without stagnating.

If it was WM keeping the restrictions in place up here in the current picture people would be tearing strips off of them.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

48 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I quoted him

Well this is him. Viking Ton stated that 'More people are dying right now from the impacts of social isolation'. I never inferred that claim was 'pish', but without evidence to back it up it must remain an assertion. He went on to add that many people are scared to attend hospital right now, which is probably true, as may be your figure of a 50% reduction in admissions, but again it is a bit of a leap to translate that into fatalities without figures to back it up. f**k knows, in the last three months we've had enough sweeping statements to last a lifetime.

The figures are there for you if you look for them.

More people are dying at home than normal. This is excluding any cases where covid-19 is listed on the death certificate.

A&E admissions are massively down.

Not liking what the figures might indicate doesn't make it a sweeping statement.

[Marshmallo]

The UK is doing worse because we didn't actually have a lockdown at any point, because people were crying about needing to get outdoors for "exercise" and waddling round Sainsburys four times a week holding their wife's hand.

New Zealand locked down quickly and harshly and is in a great place. 

Our current halfway house seems daft to me.

[Mr Tourette]

I’m wondering how we can possibly get a “2nd wave” of cases if there are only a handful of new cases reported in Scotland daily. I’m also struggling to understand how there are any new cases at all if everyone is following the current guidelines.

Who are the people infecting others (if they have symptoms)? Surely if someone’s feeling a bit shit in the current climate, they wouldn’t be out and about?