Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[craigkillie]

9 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

Of course it's pointless as the Scottish Government can't possibly comment/guess on what phase we will be at by August 1st. 

Professional sport can return at Phase Two, within public health guidelines, but when we actually reach Phase Two, at the moment, is total guesswork. These Phases aren't three week increments. 

They may not be able (or at least willing) to do so publicly, but they clearly can (and have been) with major stakeholders throughout.

[John MacLean]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

The NHS sent covid positive patients back to care homes so someone needs to go to jail for that.

Care homes and agencies didn't make provisions for sick pay for permanent staff and safe use of temporary staff so someone needs to go to jail for that too.

Probably nobody will but the care industry at the very least needs to unionise yesterday.

I think we are seeing a lot of the flaws in our society highlighted at the moment. One of those flaws, which barely seems an adequate description, is how we deal with care of the elderly. 

Indeed once we have, hopefully, returned to something approaching normality, we can sit down and discuss how the continued attack on the welfare state contributed to our, and other nations, inability to effectively deal with the virus. 

A different conversation for a different day. 

 

[madmitch]

Update on New Zealand. Of particular note is the one active case. No- one in hospital. Most people  have  been back at work for two weeks and gatherings are up to a 100 limit as of today.

For the seventh day in a row, there are no new cases of COVID-19 to report in New Zealand.

Our total number of confirmed cases remains at 1,154, which is the number we report to the World Health Organization.

Our combined total of confirmed and probable cases remains at 1,504.

There are seven additional recovered cases meaning this total is now 1,481. Only one case remains active.

There are no additional deaths to report.

There is no one in New Zealand receiving hospital-level care for COVID-19.

Yesterday our laboratories completed 4,162 tests, bringing the total number of tests completed to date to 275,852.

[NotThePars]

11 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

The NHS sent covid positive patients back to care homes so someone needs to go to jail for that.

Care homes and agencies didn't make provisions for sick pay for permanent staff and safe use of temporary staff so someone needs to go to jail for that too.

Probably nobody will but the care industry at the very least needs to unionise yesterday.

Herding the elderly into care homes during a pandemic is just a freak of nature mate nothing political about it.

[superbigal]

Update on New Zealand. Of particular note is the one active case. No- one in hospital. Most people  have  been back at work for two weeks and gatherings are up to a 100 limit as of today.

For the seventh day in a row, there are no new cases of COVID-19 to report in New Zealand.

Our total number of confirmed cases remains at 1,154, which is the number we report to the World Health Organization.

Our combined total of confirmed and probable cases remains at 1,504.

There are seven additional recovered cases meaning this total is now 1,481. Only one case remains active.

There are no additional deaths to report.

There is no one in New Zealand receiving hospital-level care for COVID-19.

Yesterday our laboratories completed 4,162 tests, bringing the total number of tests completed to date to 275,852.

So the question is will a country like this accept foreign travel , or continue ban till vaccine.

[pozbaird]

18 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

The NHS sent covid positive patients back to care homes so someone needs to go to jail for that.

Did anyone go to jail for the contaminated blood scandal? Don’t see anyone being jailed for anything when this is over. Mind you, any cnut who voted Conservative deserves to.

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

They will stick to the bargain, but it was made clear the bargain was that various parameters had to be met for them to move to the next stage. If they're not met, then they shouldn't move. I'd keegan style love it if each stage meant 3 weeks, but that will only happen if we keep our side 

It's not a 'bargain' of any sort: the human agency that will still contribute most to determining the infection curve - for good or bad - is the government as a result of its policies. The idea that the public will play a major role in determining if the stages can be met by staying on their best behaviour is nonsense. 

There was little to indicate that the SG envisaged a three week gap between each of the different phases from their public statements last week, nor from their cautious handling of events since lockdown was declared. 

[John MacLean]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

They may not be able (or at least willing) to do so publicly, but they clearly can (and have been) with major stakeholders throughout.

We don't know how moving to Phase One will impact on infection rates etc. There will be theoretical models based on best/worse case scenarios backed, perhaps, with what has happened elsewhere but it is unknown territory we are in right now. 

I'm hoping we move from one Phase to the next fairly quickly. I'm hoping that football will return as soon as possible but it is impossible to put a date on anything and it is utterly pointless the SPFL/SFA asking if football can return on August 1st as things stand. 

[vikingTON]

24 minutes ago, John MacLean said:

We don't know how moving to Phase One will impact on infection rates etc. There will be theoretical models based on best/worse case scenarios backed, perhaps, with what has happened elsewhere but it is unknown territory we are in right now. 

I'm hoping we move from one Phase to the next fairly quickly. I'm hoping that football will return as soon as possible but it is impossible to put a date on anything and it is utterly pointless the SPFL/SFA asking if football can return on August 1st as things stand. 

It really isn't, because even if only top flight football is to resume behind closed doors then an approved medical protocol still needs to be in place to allow that to happen. It has taken weeks to get the basis for that approved by football bodies and the governments in Germany, England, Spain and Italy and so it makes sense for the SPFL to start the process now. They're not nailing down an August 1 starting date by doing that.

Edited May 29, 2020 by vikingTON

[Paco]

To get to Phase 2, we need new cases to show a ‘sustained’ decline. I would say three weeks between review dates is ‘sustained’.

 

Kids are only allowed back to school in Phase 3, however, so clearly current SG expectations are that we’ll be there in early August. This would also allow ‘limited’ crowds in for events, albeit whether dozens of football matches are allowed to let crowds in at that stage and what a restricted crowd looks like is up for debate.

 

Two months really to get through Phase 1 and Phase 2. I don’t see the SG rushing in any way, and that also takes us up to the end of furlough in its current guise.

 

[engelbert_humperdink]

22 minutes ago, superbigal said:

26 minutes ago, madmitch said:

Update on New Zealand. Of particular note is the one active case. No- one in hospital. Most people  have  been back at work for two weeks and gatherings are up to a 100 limit as of today.

For the seventh day in a row, there are no new cases of COVID-19 to report in New Zealand.

Our total number of confirmed cases remains at 1,154, which is the number we report to the World Health Organization.

Our combined total of confirmed and probable cases remains at 1,504.

There are seven additional recovered cases meaning this total is now 1,481. Only one case remains active.

There are no additional deaths to report.

There is no one in New Zealand receiving hospital-level care for COVID-19.

Yesterday our laboratories completed 4,162 tests, bringing the total number of tests completed to date to 275,852.

So the question is will a country like this accept foreign travel , or continue ban till vaccine.

Million dollar question, unless the virus disappears they will be waiting for a vaccine that might never materialise or coud be rushed to the point long term effects can't be proven.

[Detournement]

42 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

This is utter and complete nonsense.

Care Homes and Hospitals are responsible for the majority of infections and indeed Deaths throughout most countries in the world, so it's got absolutely NOTHING to do with what the Scottish Government did or didn't do properly and frankly trying to make this a political issue is quite ridiculous.

The root problem, if any, actually lies with our society where people who are vulnerable / nearing the end are packed off to said care home, the fact that these places are then breeding grounds and killing fields for the virus should not be in the least bit surprising. On the other hand the likes of Italy had more community deaths, due to more of the elderly actually living with their families.

Yes, like all Governments the Scottish one has also made mistakes, however what would have been the alternatives to avoid the care home issues ? and if these alternatives were so simple, why did almost every country make the same mistakes ?

Should recovered patients have been kept in hospital ? apart from bed blocking what would have happened had they contracted the virus and died in hospital ? My guess is that the same recriminations would have been made regarding "Government failings" and the criticism would have been that "they should never have been left in hospitals when they could have been returned to the care home".

The bottom line is that this virus attacks the elderly and the weak and it's also very contagious, as such "care homes" are the perfect breeding ground and due to the vulnerability of those patients, the outcome is very often death.

End of story.

They should obviously have been tested before being discharged from hospital. 

The idea that the Scottish government are completely disconnected from care home deaths is ridiculous. The Guardian have an article about a maximum protection plan for care homes which was rejected by the Department of Health and clearly nothing like that was implemented here either.

Dealing with something slightly better than Westminster doesn't absolve the Scottish government from blame/criticism.

[craigkillie]

8 minutes ago, Paco said:

To get to Phase 2, we need new cases to show a ‘sustained’ decline. I would say three weeks between review dates is ‘sustained’.

 

Kids are only allowed back to school in Phase 3, however, so clearly current SG expectations are that we’ll be there in early August. This would also allow ‘limited’ crowds in for events, albeit whether dozens of football matches are allowed to let crowds in at that stage and what a restricted crowd looks like is up for debate.

 

Two months really to get through Phase 1 and Phase 2. I don’t see the SG rushing in any way, and that also takes us up to the end of furlough in its current guise.

 

You're surely not saying that they're able to predict things and look into the future rather than remaining paralysed and making no decisions while we're still in Phase 1?

Based on what I read elsewhere on this thread I thought the Scottish Government would just have said to schools "We can't at this stage provide any indication of when we will move into Phase Two and therefore we can provide no date for the return to schools", rather than telling them they should prepare to return on 11th August.

[pozbaird]

3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

England, their England.
 

Photo from the weekly meeting of the Joint Biosecurity Unit to set the week’s threat level.

 

[Todd_is_God]

Perhaps noteable that 1.9% of tests being positive is the lowest on record since the 8th of March

[Steven W]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Perhaps noteable that 1.9% of tests being positive is the lowest on record since the 8th of March

I wonder if we'll see an uptick in infections (and tests carried out) now that's it's simply open to anyone displaying symptoms? And if we do what the public's (and SG's) reaction would be to that.

I walk past a test centre near enough every day. Other than the first day, it's always been very quiet. A bit of me thought it would be busier today, but just as quiet as ever.

[Todd_is_God]

26 minutes ago, Steven W said:

I wonder if we'll see an uptick in infections (and tests carried out) now that's it's simply open to anyone displaying symptoms? And if we do what the public's (and SG's) reaction would be to that.

I walk past a test centre near enough every day. Other than the first day, it's always been very quiet. A bit of me thought it would be busier today, but just as quiet as ever.

Maybe.

However at the same time the SG have estimates of how many cases their actually are per week. It's miles above the number of confirmed cases.

Providing hospital admissions keep coming down I'm not sure they would be overly concerned, particularly if the milder cases are being isolated.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

They should obviously have been tested before being discharged from hospital. 
The idea that the Scottish government are completely disconnected from care home deaths is ridiculous. The Guardian have an article about a maximum protection plan for care homes which was rejected by the Department of Health and clearly nothing like that was implemented here either.
Dealing with something slightly better than Westminster doesn't absolve the Scottish government from blame/criticism.

The Covid-19 pandemic has served to hammer home with thousands of corpses just how derelict social care has been for years across the UK, Scotland included. Every winter for about 15 years there have been dire warnings about 'bed blocking' but no c**t in Government was listening - well they are now.
But ask yourselves, how would you have felt if your relative with Covid-19 couldn't have accessed a hospital bed because they were chock full of 98 year-olds ? That's the flip side of the argument and the only certainty was that this has been a disaster long in the making, such has been the social care clusterfuck.

[craigkillie]

2 hours ago, John MacLean said:

We don't know how moving to Phase One will impact on infection rates etc. There will be theoretical models based on best/worse case scenarios backed, perhaps, with what has happened elsewhere but it is unknown territory we are in right now. 

I'm hoping we move from one Phase to the next fairly quickly. I'm hoping that football will return as soon as possible but it is impossible to put a date on anything and it is utterly pointless the SPFL/SFA asking if football can return on August 1st as things stand. 

They still "wasting their time", aye?

 

[Melanius Mullarkey]