Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Billy Jean King]

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

We will see, I'm far from convinced the majority of the UK population will suddenly stop following govt instruction, we ain't exactly known for mass anarchy !!!

[renton]

6 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Locking down early “worked” in places like Greece if you define success in terms of fewer deaths.

My personal view is that the government should have presented the scientists with a number of options, e.g.

- Ban mass gatherings
- Close schools and universities
- Closing pubs and restaurants
- Closing all non-essential work

However for me a full lockdown should be outside of the options being considered regardless of the impact on life. A far better option would have been to spell out the risks to people, encourage social distancing but absolutely no fines handed out to anyone who chooses to visit relatives and friends, particularly those who aren’t at risk.

Western governments have now assumed this power to enforce lockdowns which I fear is going to be abused in future. Bars and restaurants may open again at some point but I fear big events like TRNSMT and the Scottish cup final (with fans) could be a thing of the past.

 

 

Just on the last point, the Far Eastern nations got over SARS, indeed they learned from that and implemented public policy to try and mitigate those infections in the future.

Pubs will be back, large gatherings will be back. It may be that, as I said we end up accepting a certain degradation in life expectancy if this thing hangs around and it becomes no more remarkable as a cause of death as Heart disease.

This is only going to keep happening though. Population growth and climate change will only drive up more of these pandemics, and the next one might not be a low fatality corona virus. We need well defined public policy for this going forward. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by renton

[Billy Jean King]

Like I said earlier, once life elsewhere resembles normal the spotlight will shift to here and why we are different.

You're not telling me that when bars, restaurants and cafés are open accross Europe with little to no restrictions that we here will all be quite happy to queue up down the street to sit 2m away from and behind a screen from our pals in a pub.

The "new normal" may be a thing adopted by the older population with major health conditions, but for the majority it will punted into the sea as soon as possible.

They are opening now all over Europe but nowhere have I seen any suggestions that SD restrictions will be ended. As an example just yesterday my work advised that they are working towards a week in week HW pattern AT LEAST for a year. Many many employers will be planning likewise and I have no reason to disbelieve them.

 

[ayrmad]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

1 hour ago, renton said:

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

We will see, I'm far from convinced the majority of the UK population will suddenly stop following govt instruction, we ain't exactly known for mass anarchy !!!

More like a flock of sheep. 

[Thereisalight..]

 

10 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

 

Locking down early “worked” in places like Greece if you define success in terms of fewer deaths.

My personal view is that the government should have presented the scientists with a number of options, e.g.

- Ban mass gatherings
- Close schools and universities
- Closing pubs and restaurants
- Closing all non-essential work

However for me a full lockdown should be outside of the options being considered regardless of the impact on life. A far better option would have been to spell out the risks to people, encourage social distancing but absolutely no fines handed out to anyone who chooses to visit relatives and friends, particularly those who aren’t at risk.

Western governments have now assumed this power to enforce lockdowns which I fear is going to be abused in future. Bars and restaurants may open again at some point but I fear big events like TRNSMT and the Scottish cup final (with fans) could be a thing of the past.

 

 

Fs, The TRNSMT audience is 99.9% under the age of 40 and practically at no risk from dying from it. There’s more chance of folk at TRNSMT dying from a drug overdose than covid. As for the Scottish cup final. Keep the old boys and girls away if they’re worried about their health but don’t ruin things for the vast majority to appease the minority 

[pandarilla]

It's not like population density is the only factor determining which countries are well positioned to deal with Coronavirus. A country like Sweden should be embarrassed at having a similar death rate to Scotland. 
From an ignorant outsider's perspective, the other Nordic countries seem to have handled this well. 
Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit
We couldn't have made much more of a c**t of it really. Huge death toll, economy rooked and miles behind the half decent countries in Europe when it comes to opening back up. 

You can only say that if their experiment with the economy failed.

If their way leads to them suffering much less of a downturn (and all the effects that has on living conditions) then they'll be the ones that got it right.

A lockdown that fucks the economy is only really useful if its done properly (new zealand etc).

Our half way measure looks like it could be the worst option, although it clearly saved lives.

[Thereisalight..]

11 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Interesting clip from Australia about the likelihood of a vaccine being developed, and the fallacy of planning public policy around the prospect of a vaccine being available any time soon

The vaccine line to me is nonsense. It's what allows comments like this from NS

"Within two weeks, my hope is that we will be taking some concrete steps on the journey back to normality.

"As I've said before, it won't be normality as we knew it because the virus will not have gone away, but it will be a journey to a better balance - I hope - than the one we have today."

Being accepted unchallenged.

It's simply not acceptable to talk about the journey back to normality, then immediately say that that normality wont actually be normality at all, or to suggest that what we know as normal is impossible until the virus is completely eradicated or the mythical vaccine appears. That's not realistic.

The constant focus on the rapid development of a vaccine to me is a smokescreen. It's used to deflect from the fact that the government really haven't formulated any plan for putting in place the infrastructure required to get life back to normal, and again avoids the frank and honest line of "we'll put in place testing and tracking systems to contain the spread as much as possible, but by allowing life to continue as normal a small number of people may unfortunately die" because apparantly we as adults cannot handle the hard truth.

The first few weeks of this “crisis” we were all told a vaccine could be available by the Autumn of this year. Absolute BS but folk still believed it. I’ve noticed in the last week or so more and more outlets are stressing that a vaccine may never be found and we’re going to have to live with covid being around for many years to come. I honestly think certain people (...on this thread) would continue to “live” as we are doing now until that vaccine is found. 

[pandarilla]

I can't see us living without some sort of restrictions for the remainder of the year, while that's not a long while to most folks it's obviously an inordinate length of time to those that have bitched and whined their way through this so far. 

So folk with loved ones dying in care homes, or suffering with mental health issues, families with dementia, those with terminal illnesses are all just whining and bitching?

This lockdown has very real effects.

[Todd_is_God]

5 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

 

Fs, The TRNSMT audience is 99.9% under the age of 40 and practically at no risk from dying from it. There’s more chance of folk at TRNSMT dying from a drug overdose than covid. As for the Scottish cup final. Keep the old boys and girls away if they’re worried about their health but don’t ruin things for the vast majority to appease the minority 

At the rate new infections are dropping at the moment we'll probably be sitting on the 10th of July wondering, from a purely covid 19 stand point, why it couldn't be on this year

[invergowrie arab]

4 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

The first few weeks of this “crisis” we were all told a vaccine could be available by the Autumn of this year. 

Were we f**k 

[Jacksgranda]

3 hours ago, 101 said:

All the briefings I have seen have said only elective surgery has been cancelled. No doubt some of these will be of more immediate need than others but urgent treatments are still happening.

Maybe I'm miss interpreting your post but you sound quite critical of the NHS, I think the way they have completely changed their work is incredible, most of the routine surgery that was cancelled was probably going to be for patients who were in the high risk group so shouldn't have attended a hospital anyway. I do worry about cancer screening but hopefully they can get moving again shortly.

I think London was never close to the capacity of their beds by all accounts however they very nearly ran out of staff.

I'm waiting on a scan which I'm supposed to get for the oncologist to make an informed decision on my continuing treatment, should have had it by now. Also a follow up appointment on a completely unrelated condition looks like it will be conducted over the phone. Not too concerned about that.

A neighbour whose cancer has returned appears to be in limbo re treatment/appointments.

[effeffsee_the2nd]

Some pish gets talked on here.
Do cheltenham goers only come from Gloucestershire? No people travel all accross uk and Ireland for the biggest even in the callendar ,

[tamthebam]

1 hour ago, Snafu said:

This was all a mistake??

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/akzdzg/a-south-korean-soccer-team-filled-its-stands-with-sex-dolls-holding-signs-for-x-rated-websites

wi...*ahem*

Which Scottish football manager would be first to get himself sent to the stand then....

[ayrmad]

Just now, pandarilla said:

So folk with loved ones dying in care homes, or suffering with mental health issues, families with dementia, those with terminal illnesses are all just whining and bitching?

This lockdown has very real effects.

I'm talking about those on here moaning like f**k from day 1. 

[effeffsee_the2nd]

. I honestly think certain people (...on this thread) would continue to “live” as we are doing now until that vaccine is found. 

 

 

I recon those who advocate this are those who are happy to live this way and wouldn’t normally leave their house if they didn’t have to, me? Hate it ! My house is where i eat sleep chill and sometimes pump the mrs when she doesn’t have a headache but my life is lived outside of it, and im not a drinker or partier either. I know it’s selfish but i want to get back to normal

 

[Michael W]

49 minutes ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

Yeah that's fair. I imagine any country with an international hub airport (Heathrow, Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle) is going to be at an immediate disadvantage.

Not to mention the public transport systems in each. The Underground and Paris Metro have daily riderships in excess of four million. 

Cramped and enclosed environments are ideal for spreading. 

[Jacksgranda]

38 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Good tip, that - also works on bathroom mirrors.

Bit awkward glueing them to your face though.

[Billy Jean King]

The first few weeks of this “crisis” we were all told a vaccine could be available by the Autumn of this year. Absolute BS but folk still believed it. I’ve noticed in the last week or so more and more outlets are stressing that a vaccine may never be found and we’re going to have to live with covid being around for many years to come. I honestly think certain people (...on this thread) would continue to “live” as we are doing now until that vaccine is found. 

No one wants to live like this but we have no alternative so need to get used to what will be allowed. All business will be allowed to reopen under restrictions until the virus is totally contained or controlled via vaccine. If a pub is allowed to trade at 50% capacity and table service only, that's how they will need to trade. If football needs to be closed door then that's how it will be. It's shit and personally I will choose not to go to pubs, restaurants or on holiday until these restraints are over. They will be one day but there will be no anarchy in the UK, we are conditioned to sook these things up and in business if it's the difference between being able to trade or not each owner will need to weigh up whether it's possible to trade profitably. Public confidence will take years to recover from this as can be seen by the polarisation of opinions even on this limited platform.

[Sergeant Wilson]

24 minutes ago, Thereisalight.. said:

 

Fs, The TRNSMT audience is 99.9% under the age of 40 and practically at no risk from dying from it. 

More's the pity.

[Michael W]

13 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

Some pish gets talked on here.
Do cheltenham goers only come from Gloucestershire? No people travel all accross uk and Ireland for the biggest even in the callendar ,

I think it's fair to say that hundreds of thousands of people attending are at the very least likely to infect a few locals as well, thus creating a spike in the area they had all happened to gather in. 

The main impact will have been in their own communities but I don't think the spike in the Cheltenham area is a coincidence.