Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Bairnardo]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

There's nothing wrong with looking forward to seeing loved ones, socialising again, but if it's not possible/safe to just 'go back to normal', i.e. mass gatherings without significant hygiene/safety checks, queuing for shops/supermarkets, social distancing in pubs/restaurants etc then it isn't helpful to tell people that things will be back to normal soon.

Get what you are saying, but perhaps some clarity. People are hearing that their lives will never be the same again whether that's whats being said or not. Perception is reality in these things. Are we saying that new normal is when the kids go back to school they might have to get their temperature checked or are we saying its day about in school/home for the next five years?

Are we saying we there will be a need to sanitise our hands more for the next two years or are we saying you won't be in a restaurant again till 2025. There is very little except media sensationalism in terms of what "new normal" means on a day to day level, and if you are like me when your day to day interactions re this include mostly explaining to a 5 year old why the soft play isn't open, it doesn't help.

 

 

[Silverton End]

Shots fired

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

35 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm no, this 'but but but Sweden has a lower population density!' argument is garbage as well. Nobody cares how many thousands of square miles of tundra exist in glorified Lapland because nobody actually lives there. Stockholm is a continuous urban area of over 1.5 million people; Gothenburg 600k; Malmo over 300k. There are dozens of smaller centres with an equivalent population size to Greater Greenock, which the Scottish experience shows to be more than large and concentrated enough for local transmission to run rampant. Sweden is in fact an urbanised society with a massive depopulated hinterland just like Scotland and so faces the same public health challenges from that starting point. 

Aye, a lot of people have talked about population density when comparing countries when it isn't particularly useful.

Spain is a good example. It's got a smaller population than the UK spread over a larger area, but most of central Spain is empty. Spanish cities are far more densely populated than UK ones (Barcelona is 4 times more crowded than London). Spain might have a very low density overall, but in terms of where people actually live, it's extremely crowded.

[Todd_is_God]

16 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Get what you are saying, but perhaps some clarity. People are hearing that their lives will never be the same again whether that's whats being said or not. Perception is reality in these things.

The fact that you can be fined for popping over to your parents' house because it's dangerous, but that you can jump on a crowded tube train is a joke.

Face coverings are advised on public transport and enclosed soaces, but not mandatory.

If they are effective, then let people get back to normal at their own pace by lifting restrictions and making them mandatory in public places.

If they aren't effective, stop suggesting them as a way of making an activity that would otherwise be classed as dangerous safe.

The mixed messages are awful.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[renton]

1 minute ago, Carl Cort's Hamstring said:

Aye, a lot of people have talked about population density when comparing countries when it isn't particularly useful.

Spain is a good example. It's got a smaller population than the UK spread over a larger area, but most of central Spain is empty. Spanish cities are far more densely populated than UK ones (Barcelona is 4 times more crowded than London). Spain might have a very low density overall, but in terms of where people actually live, it's extremely crowded.

It's really about connectivity, and how much population mixing there is. 

[Wee Willie]

41 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-19/royal-budget-faces-financial-blow-due-to-coronavirus-lockdown/

Pleasing

 

32 minutes ago, 101 said:

£17.8 black hole. I hope they sell something off before writing to the chancellor. It always pissed me off the NHS write out to folk on the cheapest paper they can buy and folk are riding about in gold wagons pretending we have money to burn

All Mrs Windsor has to do is ask for more money from the so-called Crown estates

Who is going to say no to her

2014: Queen's income set to rise to £40m next year

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28030509

[NotThePars]

57 minutes ago, renton said:

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

Yup. The most depressing, and likely, outcome imo will be that everything stays the same but gets slightly worse continuing the nice downward trajectory of the last 30 years.

[renton]

Last few Tuesdays in terms of deaths: 70,70, 44,50,29.... getting there.

[ICTChris]

Aye, a lot of people have talked about population density when comparing countries when it isn't particularly useful.
Spain is a good example. It's got a smaller population than the UK spread over a larger area, but most of central Spain is empty. Spanish cities are far more densely populated than UK ones (Barcelona is 4 times more crowded than London). Spain might have a very low density overall, but in terms of where people actually live, it's extremely crowded.

I’ve seen it posited that this could be behind higher rates of infection in Edinburgh and Glasgow, where there are a lot of densely populated tenements and flats.

[Carl Cort's Hamstring]

39 minutes ago, renton said:

It's really about connectivity, and how much population mixing there is. 

Yeah that's fair. I imagine any country with an international hub airport (Heathrow, Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle) is going to be at an immediate disadvantage.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

All Mrs Windsor has to do is ask for more money from the so-called Crown estates
Who is going to say no to her
2014: Queen's income set to rise to £40m next year

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28030509

I see her heir is encouraging a new 'Land Army' to bring in this year's harvest. I'll be watching on with interest.

[Donathan]

The central belt of Scotland is somewhere around 2.5 to 4 million people in a largely urbanised environment with a lot of commuter traffic. It's a bad mix of having a lot of people in a relatively small area with a large amount of population mixing and connectivity and several international airports and a lot of through traffic. It's also an hour and a half commute from one of the world's most globally connected cities.
I don't think you can entirely make the same calculations in terms of strategies, at least for those getting into lockdown. I also suspect that when looking at Sweden's voluntary measures vs our mandatory ones vs everyone else mandatory ones, we are closer to Sweden than we are to everyone else.
I'd also be wary that Sweden's general health outcomes are better than ours, I suspect that coronavirus working its way through a bunch of old Weegies might well have a higher mortality rate than some other places. I also think that the NHS barely coped and might not have done with several more days of exponential growth.
Lockdown was the right response, as belated and half hearted as it was. Lockdown early and harder would've been the best response.
 

What do you mean by “harder”?

Not allowing the daily exercise? Not sure that would actually have a big effect on R and would actually worsen mental health, so that’s a non-starter.

Ban all non-essential work that isn’t done from home? I would agree with this, and would have banned construction work etc. Although a lot of it stopped anyway.

Allocated days to do your grocery shopping? Perhaps.

[renton]

Just now, Donathan said:

 

 

What do you mean by “harder”?

Not allowing the daily exercise? Not sure that would actually have a big effect on R and would actually worsen mental health, so that’s a non-starter.

Ban all non-essential work that isn’t done from home? I would agree with this, and would have banned construction work etc. Although a lot of it stopped anyway.

Allocated days to do your grocery shopping? Perhaps.
 

 

 

It's academic now, but getting lockdown in place before we had more than a couple of dozen confirmed cases, let alone deaths: shut the borders then. 

And yeah, ban anything that couldn't be done at home, severely limit the time people are outside and together. The idea is to stay in that mode for a few weeks, not a few months as now.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

If you rub soap on your specs then rinse it off you should be immune to steaming up for a while  

Good tip, that - also works on bathroom mirrors.

[supermik]

13 minutes ago, renton said:

Last few Tuesdays in terms of deaths: 70,70, 44,50,29.... getting there.

Yes, so it is now 0.3% of Scotland tested positive. 0.04% of Scots population deid.

I would get me coat but I’m not allowed oot...

[ayrmad]

15 hours ago, renton said:

Define a while. 

After July the Furlough scheme in this country becomes significantly weaker and more conditional. By then our nearest neighbours will be well out of their lockdowns and progressing more rapidly towards normality, no doubt boosted by a  large ECB stimulus package, the Americans will simply weather what ever they have to without recourse to further economic damage. China is already back up and rolling.

This is not a situation where we can set our own pace. There was a timer set by the aggregate of others efforts to solve this issue, and we will simply have to react as best we can to whatever state we are in when the music stops. After that it's Open for Business and Devil damn the hindmost.

I can't see us living without some sort of restrictions for the remainder of the year, while that's not a long while to most folks it's obviously an inordinate length of time to those that have bitched and whined their way through this so far. 

[Donathan]

It's academic now, but getting lockdown in place before we had more than a couple of dozen confirmed cases, let alone deaths: shut the borders then. 
And yeah, ban anything that couldn't be done at home, severely limit the time people are outside and together. The idea is to stay in that mode for a few weeks, not a few months as now.

Locking down early “worked” in places like Greece if you define success in terms of fewer deaths.

My personal view is that the government should have presented the scientists with a number of options, e.g.

- Ban mass gatherings
- Close schools and universities
- Closing pubs and restaurants
- Closing all non-essential work

However for me a full lockdown should be outside of the options being considered regardless of the impact on life. A far better option would have been to spell out the risks to people, encourage social distancing but absolutely no fines handed out to anyone who chooses to visit relatives and friends, particularly those who aren’t at risk.

Western governments have now assumed this power to enforce lockdowns which I fear is going to be abused in future. Bars and restaurants may open again at some point but I fear big events like TRNSMT and the Scottish cup final (with fans) could be a thing of the past.

[Todd_is_God]

+29 deaths

+61 cases

[Alan Stubbs]

It's not like population density is the only factor determining which countries are well positioned to deal with Coronavirus. A country like Sweden should be embarrassed at having a similar death rate to Scotland. 

From an ignorant outsider's perspective, the other Nordic countries seem to have handled this well. 

Fast in, first out: Denmark leads lockdown exit

We couldn't have made much more of a c**t of it really. Huge death toll, economy rooked and miles behind the half decent countries in Europe when it comes to opening back up. 

[Todd_is_God]

3 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I fear big events like TRNSMT and the Scottish cup final (with fans) could be a thing of the past.

 

 

f**k me