Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[vikingTON]

2 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

Lockdown is lifted.

VT: FINALLY the adults are back in charge.

*VT looks at his basement door*

*some time passes*

VT: if only I had somewhere to go

 

 

I'm sure that sounded like a cutting retort in your head. Thanks for playing anyway.

[Granny Danger]

20 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Oh, there will be some - just not the "Big Beasts" like Peston and Kuenssberg, or the Establishment-dependent outlets like the Beeb or Sky. Unfortunately, these same outlets will decry the efforts of real journalists as part of their aim of retaining their position.

Watch Al Jazeera, RT, Euronews. Read The Canary, Guardian, Morning Star, Skwawkbox. Also read the mainstream stuff such as the Times, Telegraph, Mail, Express. Then ask yourself where they get their info, who the story benefits, who profits from a certain narrative...

The truth is normally out there, but the spinning of facts seasoned with supposition and prejudice can change a story out of all recognition to serve a predetermined narrative. A single source, of whatever stripe, rarely gives the whole picture. The latest example is the Heil on Sunday's "exposure" of Keir Starmer's field.

What line do you RT will take when discussing the impact of the virus on Russia?

[Todd_is_God]

10 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Would I be correct in detecting a wee bit of sarcasm in your last sentence? I can only assume the likes of Whitty and Harries have got assurances of a decent pay-off, becuse their professional reputations must be fucked by now.

Ever so slightly

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

We all laugh at the mad gatherings in America, and there have been scatterings of events across Europe too.
None of which have caused any sort of spike.
I'm not saying that these types of thing should be encouraged at all but they do demonstrate that, actually, large groups of people gathering outdoors doesn't appear very dangerous at all.
It's not at all strange that, throughout this, "the science" has supported exactly what the government have wanted to do, despite this being different to almost everywhere else in the world.

That would be the america where most of the people at these events are poor-middle class in an america that has even worse testing than here and a health system that sees poor people typically avoid going to hospitals?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I'm sure that sounded like a cutting retort in your head. Thanks for playing anyway.

I think that if you just opened yourself up and let someone in, you could be really happy. X

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, renton said:

On the point about Sweden: as before, the population density and connectivity of a population will play a role in altering the R effective number, before you start enforcing lockdowns and/or social distancing. I'm pretty sure if all of as Scotland had a population density like the Highlands, we'd have never needed a lockdown. Worth noting that Sweden's excess mortality is on a par with Scotland with half the population density we have. In Norway and Denmark they don't appear to have any excess mortality - a demonstration that lockdowns, early and comprehensive remains the best solution. 

The point being that the Scottish central belt is probably a bit harder to control infections than with just social distancing like the Swedes managed, particularly with the large amounts of commuter traffic between two centralised business hubs 60 miles apart that we have.

Erm no, this 'but but but Sweden has a lower population density!' argument is garbage as well. Nobody cares how many thousands of square miles of tundra exist in glorified Lapland because nobody actually lives there. Stockholm is a continuous urban area of over 1.5 million people; Gothenburg 600k; Malmo over 300k. There are dozens of smaller centres with an equivalent population size to Greater Greenock, which the Scottish experience shows to be more than large and concentrated enough for local transmission to run rampant. Sweden is in fact an urbanised society with a massive depopulated hinterland just like Scotland and so faces the same public health challenges from that starting point. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by vikingTON

[WhiteRoseKillie]

8 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

What line do you RT will take when discussing the impact of the virus on Russia?

Depends what they're told to say - as I say, it would be a rare thing to find an unbiased information outlet. I get the feeling RT's take on Russia's situation would diverge from most other outlets. That's when the adults among us start asking cui bono.

[welshbairn]

4 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Depends what they're told to say - as I say, it would be a rare thing to find an unbiased information outlet. I get the feeling RT's take on Russia's situation would diverge from most other outlets. That's when the adults among us start asking cui bono.

I wonder how they're reporting the death toll in Dagestan where the official figure is 27 and the Health Minister has just said that 40 doctors have died from it.

[madwullie]

49 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

We all laugh at the mad gatherings in America, and there have been scatterings of events across Europe too.

None of which have caused any sort of spike.

I'm not saying that these types of thing should be encouraged at all but they do demonstrate that, actually, large groups of people gathering outdoors doesn't appear very dangerous at all.

It's not at all strange that, throughout this, "the science" has supported exactly what the government have wanted to do, despite this being different to almost everywhere else in the world.

Cheltenham caused a spike in the trust it is in, and some of the gatherings in America have been shown to causes spikes. 72 people confirmed from voting in wisconsin. 

The trouble is (and this will be the problem with any legal action peoe attempt to take against their employer in the event they contract the virus once they're back at work) is that its verging on impossible to determine exactly where someone became infected. Likewise, not everyone that attended for eg a VE party will disclose that information when attending hospital / testing facility.

Dont know about European gatherings as I've not been following them.

[Turkmenbashi]

1 hour ago, madwullie said:

I wonder what public opinion looks like in Sweden considering the different choices made there. I suppose those who feel there should have been stricter action would probably have taken it themselves anyway, as much as possible with work responsibilities etc

While plenty of people are happy with it. Some of my mates have been boasting about still going to pubs etc. Obviously there is mixed views, and a massive racial dynamic, with middle class white swedes living by themselves and working from home, which prior to the crisis was more prominent in Sweden than anywhere else. While there are massive problems in the multigenerational homes in mostly immigrant schemes. Even more so than in the U.K. it appears that is ethnic minorities that are hit.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-19/royal-budget-faces-financial-blow-due-to-coronavirus-lockdown/

Pleasing

[Billy Jean King]

For many, they will be getting through the lockdown by looking forward to things returning to normal.
Telling them that that won't be the case until the virus is completely away isn't helpful.

Normal as we knew it is gone for the time being, we all need to get used to that as the "new normal " we keep hearing about is where we are heading and what the govts (uk and devolved) are planning for.

[renton]

32 minutes ago, virginton said:

Erm no, this 'but but but Sweden has a lower population density!' argument is garbage as well. Nobody cares how many thousands of square miles of tundra exist in glorified Lapland because nobody actually lives there. Stockholm is a continuous urban area of over 1.5 million people; Gothenburg 600k; Malmo over 300k. There are dozens of smaller centres with an equivalent population size to Greater Greenock, which the Scottish experience shows to be more than large and concentrated enough for local transmission to run rampant. Sweden is in fact an urbanised society with a massive depopulated hinterland just like Scotland and so faces the same public health challenges from that starting point. 

The central belt of Scotland is somewhere around 2.5 to 4 million people in a largely urbanised environment with a lot of commuter traffic. It's a bad mix of having a lot of people in a relatively small area with a large amount of population mixing and connectivity and several international airports and a lot of through traffic. It's also an hour and a half commute from one of the world's most globally connected cities.

I don't think you can entirely make the same calculations in terms of strategies, at least for those getting into lockdown. I also suspect that when looking at Sweden's voluntary measures vs our mandatory ones vs everyone else mandatory ones, we are closer to Sweden than we are to everyone else.

I'd also be wary that Sweden's general health outcomes are better than ours, I suspect that coronavirus working its way through a bunch of old Weegies might well have a higher mortality rate than some other places. I also think that the NHS barely coped and might not have done with several more days of exponential growth.

Lockdown was the right response, as belated and half hearted as it was. Lockdown early and harder would've been the best response.

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by renton

[renton]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

For many, they will be getting through the lockdown by looking forward to things returning to normal.
Telling them that that won't be the case until the virus is completely away isn't helpful.

Normal as we knew it is gone for the time being, we all need to get used to that as the "new normal " we keep hearing about is where we are heading and what the govts (uk and devolved) are planning for.

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

[101]

7 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-19/royal-budget-faces-financial-blow-due-to-coronavirus-lockdown/

Pleasing

£17.8 black hole. I hope they sell something off before writing to the chancellor. It always pissed me off the NHS write out to folk on the cheapest paper they can buy and folk are riding about in gold wagons pretending we have money to burn

[101]

2 minutes ago, renton said:

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

Nothing to suggest this won't happen again in the short term. Until we clamp down on illegal meat trade and climate change more generally "normal" life will get battered left right and centre

[renton]

1 minute ago, 101 said:

Nothing to suggest this won't happen again in the short term. Until we clamp down on illegal meat trade and climate change more generally "normal" life will get battered left right and centre

Aye, it seems likely that the world will simply lurch from one crisis to the next with greater frequency. 

[Karpaty Lviv]

My local shop put a Facebook message up two days ago saying that from yesterday, they were going to start having only three in a time, one way systems etc, required hand sanitiser at the door, screen protector at the till (all a bit late) so I thought I’d do my bit and wear a mask. Went in last night and nothing had changed, I couldn’t navigate around the shop as my glasses were steamed up and I looked like a right fanny. Might extend my walk in future to the next scheme.

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, renton said:

The New Normal will quickly melt back into the old Normal. It's a matter of time before the idea of Coronavirus as an end of life factor is normalised enough that people stop caring. Especially if it is still coming between people and their routines 6 months down the line.

Like I said earlier, once life elsewhere resembles normal the spotlight will shift to here and why we are different.

You're not telling me that when bars, restaurants and cafés are open accross Europe with little to no restrictions that we here will all be quite happy to queue up down the street to sit 2m away from and behind a screen from our pals in a pub.

The "new normal" may be a thing adopted by the older population with major health conditions, but for the majority it will punted into the sea as soon as possible.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Todd_is_God

[madwullie]

6 minutes ago, Karpaty Lviv said:

My local shop put a Facebook message up two days ago saying that from yesterday, they were going to start having only three in a time, one way systems etc, required hand sanitiser at the door, screen protector at the till (all a bit late) so I thought I’d do my bit and wear a mask. Went in last night and nothing had changed, I couldn’t navigate around the shop as my glasses were steamed up and I looked like a right fanny. Might extend my walk in future to the next scheme.

If you rub soap on your specs then rinse it off you should be immune to steaming up for a while