Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Arabdownunder]

Was just checking out todays position in Belgium.  The lockdown rules are very similar to here. Look at the fines compared to our pesky £30 fixed penalties. May be the way.

The measures only allow people to leave their homes only for buying food and medicine, visiting a doctor, helping someone in need or going to work -- unless home office is an option for them.

Only supermarkets and pharmacies can stay open, while snack bars and restaurants are just allowed to offer food for take-away.

People are allowed to take a walk outside with their family members from the same household, but they are required to keep 1.5-meter distance from others.

A Brussels court sentenced on Friday a 23-year old man to community service after he broke the lockdown measures three times. It was the first court decision penalizing the breach of social distancing principles.

If caught by the police, adults need to pay €250 ($274) fine for the first time, and €350 ($383) for the second.

According to the police, the vast majority of citizens respect the rules.

Fine here for breaching public health order is $AUD 1652 (£840)

[ayrmad]

19 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

The majority of people are sticking by the rules but the minority of those who arent is far larger than you appear to believe.

I've no idea how large the minority is, neither do you, it's hard to be too critical when you look at the example being set by those at the top. 

We had Nicola Sturgeon setting out quite clearly where we stood on the lockdown on the 23rd March and before, at the same time the BBC totally drowned that message out by continually showing us Boris and his buds mibbees aye mibbees naw message wishy-washy pish, I chose to take Sturgeon as our boss, most didn't, BBC 1 has Scotland as an afterthought whereas I think we should be getting it from our perspective with rUK as the tag on. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by ayrmad

[Gaz]

There are still politicians making shit wishy-washy statements on what constitutes exercise, and shit lax guidelines that allow any small business owner with a superiority complex to keep their businesses open on the claim they are vital to the running of the country.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

What's your source for this? Not saying you are wrong but I think it's a tough thing to quantify.

I have seen very little in the way of rule breaking. I have only seen one group of 4 or five similar aged guys walking about together that I would have assumed werent of the same household.

There must be data on this, since as I said lastnight, Mrs B was told in an NHS meeting that Forth Valley was considered to be observing the rules well compared to other areas. I havent seen any though.

Its largely experiential and raw info from phone calls to authorities from lack of compliance. There’s still people having house parties, still people drinking in the parks etc. You’re right that its tough to quantify, but the constant appeals for people to stick by it are largely due to the fact so many people seem to think that they are some special exemption to the rule.
I am very glad to read that in your area you’ve encountered such few instances! My wifes pal is a GP in forth valley and she’s heard the same in terms of compliance there being very good.

[Gaz]

600 house parties in Manchester last weekend.

I think it's naive to assume that won't be happening in all towns and cities to various extents.

[peasy23]

Social interactions are certainly vastly reduced from what I've seen. Haven't even seen the local neds hanging around, so they are either keeping apart or hiding in somebody's house, and you would hope the parents wouldn't let that happen.

This is a long thread on Twitter, but Trump is a fucking mentalist.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Tynierose said:

I'm fairly sure the cuddly conservative party long term plan will be to get all those who are on benefits doing those sort of jobs that are currently being done by those pesky foreign types.   They will stop their benefits if they don't.

Counter productive as the feckless fuckers in society will do a terrible job and invariably f**k up any employment they are given, hence the reason there are so many hard working foreigners working in low wage jobs.    They are needed, they have a work ethic and are more than welcome in this country.

 

 

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

The reality is that many people actively seeking work will be preyed on by shitehawks offering ludicrous pay and conditions, zero hours contracts etc etc. 

Were it not for the welfare system, people would be forced into this type of employment and their lives and those of their kids would fall through the cracks. 

As Mixu said, it's the attitudes of employers that needs to change in this country and that is fed from the very top. 

Welcoming people from other countries to work long hours on low pay and often in poor conditions is nothing to be proud of. 

If the wages and conditions were at an appropriate level then more people already in the UK would take an interest in doing these types of jobs.  

Is it the Basque country  corporation where the lowest paid employee in a company must be on a fifth of the salary of the highest paid?  In reality here it must be well over a 100:1 ratio in the U.K.  Corbyn  pushed for a 20:1 ratio for any company given a government contract, but it didn't happen.

The irony is those who benefit most from our current immigration policy are the rich, generally conservative types who want to keep down costs, thus maximising profits.

Immigration in itself is fine, as it brings cultural benefits, but the current model is based around maintaining inequalities.

[ICTChris]

I think there were figures given for the number of fines issued in Scotland, it was about 150. It might have been last weekend.

A friend of a colleague was fined in Linlithgow for buying a bottle of wine, not an essential purchase apparently.

[throbber]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think there were figures given for the number of fines issued in Scotland, it was about 150. It might have been last weekend.

A friend of a colleague was fined in Linlithgow for buying a bottle of wine, not an essential purchase apparently.

The trick is to buy some milk whilst you buy the booze. A rookie mistake.

[stanton]

7 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think there were figures given for the number of fines issued in Scotland, it was about 150. It might have been last weekend.

A friend of a colleague was fined in Linlithgow for buying a bottle of wine, not an essential purchase apparently.

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18373080.glasgow-woman-29-arrested-reckless-lockdown-house-parties-continue/

[The DA]

7 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think there were figures given for the number of fines issued in Scotland, it was about 150. It might have been last weekend.

A friend of a colleague was fined in Linlithgow for buying a bottle of wine, not an essential purchase apparently.

That's exactly what we're told shouldn't be happening.  The authorities don't have the right to pry into your shopping.

[ICTChris]

I've no idea how large the minority is, neither do you, it's hard to be too critical when you look at the example being set by those at the top. 
We had Nicola Sturgeon setting out quite clearly where we stood on the lockdown on the 23rd March and before, at the same time the BBC totally drowned that message out by continually showing us Boris and his buds mibbees aye mibbees naw message wishy-washy pish, I chose to take Sturgeon as our boss, most didn't, BBC 1 has Scotland as an afterthought whereas I think we should be getting it from our perspective with rUK as the tag on. 

I don’t want to get into an argument or anything like that but I don’t think that has anything to do with it. The message from both the Scottish and U.K. governments is the same. They have taken the same measures and same steps. If people are breaching the restrictions it’s on them.

[ayrmad]

Just now, ICTChris said:

 

I don’t want to get into an argument or anything like that but I don’t think that has anything to do with it. The message from both the Scottish and U.K. governments is the same. They have taken the same measures and same steps. If people are breaching the restrictions it’s on them.

 

The messages were not the same, one was ambiguous and one wasn't, I'm still not sure if Boris told builders to stop non essential building works. 

[pandarilla]

600 house parties in Manchester last weekend.
I think it's naive to assume that won't be happening in all towns and cities to various extents.

We can't worry about this too much though, for two reasons.

Firstly, these people tend to be less likely to end up in hospital with a severe version, as they're usually younger than average.

Secondly, the herd immunity idea (that was rightly discredited) still has the merit of folk getting this and becoming immune. The more folk who are immune the better - even though that's not a plan we should ever have considered for the population as a whole.

The swedes look high in numbers but if they somehow get through it without their health system being entirely fucked then they'll have a big advantage on the other side (so to speak).

There are always going to be folk who simply don't listen to advice. There's only so much you can do - as truncheoning is not a legitimate option and jailing folk or imposing harsh fines on these folk will only create bigger social problems in the medium to long term.

[ICTChris]

600 house parties in Manchester last weekend.
I think it's naive to assume that won't be happening in all towns and cities to various extents.

My neighbour is an ex police officer and he told me that the police aren’t that taxed in Edinburgh at the moment, which you’d have expected given the reduction in people about.

Another police officer I know has told me that its the usual suspects that are being fined for breaching the conditions, local drunks and drug addicts who get nicked all the time anyway.

[Bairnardo]

Should have told them that he would have DT's without wine, need hospitalised therefore impacting on NHS.   
On a sidenote what defines an essential purchase?  Are you only going to be allowed allocated items.  Pish policing in my opinion and shouldn't be allowed.
 

This was clarified on the news the other night. If a shop is allowed to be open, then whatever it stocks is fair game for purchase. Police told to wind their necks in.

[Marshmallo]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

We can't worry about this too much though, for two reasons.

Firstly, these people tend to be less likely to end up in hospital with a severe version, as they're usually younger than average.

Secondly, the herd immunity idea (that was rightly discredited) still has the merit of folk getting this and becoming immune. The more folk who are immune the better - even though that's not a plan we should ever have considered for the population as a whole.

The swedes look high in numbers but if they somehow get through it without their health system being entirely fucked then they'll have a big advantage on the other side (so to speak).

There are always going to be folk who simply don't listen to advice. There's only so much you can do - as truncheoning is not a legitimate option and jailing folk or imposing harsh fines on these folk will only create bigger social problems in the medium to long term.

There is no proof that you can only catch this virus once, what's your source for saying disobeying government guidance will build up immunity?

If the "social problems in the medium to long term" are greater than 1,000 people a day dying then I'd be interested to hear what those would be.

[The OP]

19 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

I think there were figures given for the number of fines issued in Scotland, it was about 150. It might have been last weekend.

A friend of a colleague was fined in Linlithgow for buying a bottle of wine, not an essential purchase apparently.

Sounds unlikely. It has the urban myth ring from “a friend of a colleague” and my local one-o-one is open despite only selling wine, beer, spirits, sugary drinks, crisps and tabloid newspapers.

[pandarilla]

There is no proof that you can only catch this virus once, what's your source for saying disobeying government guidance will build up immunity?
If the "social problems in the medium to long term" are greater than 1,000 people a day dying then I'd be interested to hear what those would be.

The difference of a few house parties in each area is not going to be 1000 deaths a day. Get off your high horse and calm the f**k down.

So far there's no evidence than folk are catching this more than once. There's been no second wave spike so far and it would be very unusual for this to be a virus that didn't create an immunity. I'm certain i read early on that almost all corona viruses do.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, D.A.F.C said:

I know theres probably nothing that will change for a few days but the daily death toll in the UK is terrible. The media looked at italy and covered it saying it was a disaster yet when it happens here they dont question the government and seem more interested in boris.
The decisions to allow mass gatherings and half arsed rules have cost us big time.
Not to mention lack of ppe and testing.
I haven't seen one journalist ask a difficult question.

Probably scared that they don't get another invite to the press conference. 

Got a few friends and family who work in care homes and they're buying their own masks and gloves etc.

We're a rich country,  this shouldn't be happening.