Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ddfg]

33 minutes ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

I'm not saying the decisions are not poor. I was asking your opinion on why they want to look like they care. 

My opinion is based on almost two years of having additional restrictions than England, having restictions for longer periods of time than England, of the FM saying she is not being political and then making an overtly political point, repeated comments by the FM that she makes no apologies for restrictions, of veiled digs that she would do more if she could, repeated comments along the lines of we "just don't know" when erring on the side of caution. 

Ultimately she will do anything she can to out care the Tories which the vast majority of her supporters just lap up rather than acting for the overall benefit of the country. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

52 minutes ago, George Parr said:

Leitch's overreach genuinely seems to knows no bounds. He's in the top 3 worst things to emerge from the pandemic. 

 

33 minutes ago, George Parr said:

1. Janey Godley's comedy.

2. Jason Leitch's overreach.

3. The virus and all its variants.

If you consider the absolute most worst things as a top three in Scotland then its Godley, Leitch, Devi and then in 4th place is the virus itself. 

[Big Fifer]

This post is fucking massive, so apologies.

Had my coffee with John Mason MSP. Now he’s someone I fiercely disagree with on a lot of issues, many of which in the public eye and I think he’s had more than a few shockers of late on social media along these lines. Regardless, it was a relatively pleasant two-hour conversation where I managed to get my view across (I think).

• I initially raised my issue with “tsunami” phraseology – at that time he was unable to provide me with the ICU/death figures for Omicron. He agreed that perhaps that phrase was not appropriate.
•  He had previously mentioned that whilst he receives e-mails from me, frustrated about the restrictions, he also receives emails from people on the other side. I put it to him that this is likely in large part to the Scottish Governments dangerous scare messaging. He noted this as a possible reason. He stressed again that ScotGov are going for the more cautious approach – I again noted that whilst this was fine earlier in the pandemic, we cannot continue to screech whatever parts of the economy the “matilda pointing at things” government chooses. I have previously raised my concern that football and hospitality are being punished – he disagreed at the time – but I felt that my explanation of why I felt this was the case was listened to. I pointed out that schools remain open and whilst I am absolutely not suggesting they get closed, it makes no sense keeping them open whist punishing private business. The issue of masks (more on that later) in schools and the data showing not a lot was again I feel listened to.
• I raised the data issues. I spoke to their desperation to use scary SA and Denmark data but when that data was showing the decoupling between cases and hospitalisation/ICU this data was swiftly ignored. I struggled to understand this. He again doubled down on the more cautious approach. He himself believes the government is more cautious than needs, but these decisions come from the top (more on that later) and he himself has raised issues with the panicked messaging and random crowd numbers etc.
• On the current restrictions. I asked him if he could say with a straight face that “sitting down” and table service made any difference in the data. He could not.
• I spoke in general about the restrictions, that 2 years in the government needs to provide its citizens with the data that justifies the closing of businesses/restrictions rather than just deciding on a whim. He said this data is difficult to get. I said that whilst that might be the case, continually leaving business in uncertain situations cannot continue.
• I then spoke about the data in Scotland vs England. Now his previous response here was along the lines of “yeah but if we didn’t do x then the numbers would be higher”. I put it to him that a) you could affectively say that statement FOREVER and b) we have the best real world data in terms of restrictions anyone could EVER hope for on this island with England vs Scotland data tracking perfectly. Again he defended this point – but I fought back strongly on this and being the utter loser I am pointed to the graphs reflecting this for his consideration. It did seem like this got through, and at the Covid committee on Thursday he intends to raise this now.
• We spoke about next winter. His last e-mail to me was incredibly strange because I asked why there is no consideration for NHS capacity. On this, we didn’t go too deep into the NHS but he did agree that based on this winter the Scottish Government needs to take more time and considering whether they need to act next winter in the likelihood of “new variants”.
• I raised the concept of the ScotGov bubble. Of course we are all familiar with Westminster bubble but in my head I am astonished that the First Minister believes that a) people are following the guidance in terms of 3 households/limiting contacts and that b) any pubs etc outwith the city centres are actually following these nonsense rules. He agreed on these points and reflected on the massive reduction in “check-ins” and that the government needs to look at phasing this sort of thing out.
• I then raised the issue of younger people suffering during the pandemic (I’m 28 so not sure I quite qualify). In previous twitter conversations with him, he enraged me by saying that “nightclubs etc” are “extra”. Now I realised 3 years ago that city centre night clubs are no longer the place for me – but I don’t believe it’s fair that he or anyone in government get to decide on a whim what is extra. For example, I put it to him that I am the biggest atheist ever and he is very religious. I feel churches are extra. But he would no doubt disagree.
• We then had an in depth conversation about how the government actually governs. Because I was intrigued to understand what the role of the “covid committee” actually was, and let me tell you, the answer did not please me. When I raised my concern that Devi is monetising the pandemic with her books and talks, he smiled and agreed it shouldn’t happen. Regardless, it was made clear that the leadership in the Scottish Government are advised (and she does indeed have the FM’s ear), decisions are made on this and THEN the Covid committee analyses these decisions. I was really perplexed by this – in government I’d have thought a far better way to work would be for the committee and the leadership to work together (and cross party) when it comes to speaking to “independent” advisors and making decisions. So for anyone wondering how these decisions are being made, based on the conversation I had with him, it is very clear that the “cautious approach” is being driven by the leadership at the top. I noted the number of times that “Nicola” was used in the answers to what I was saying – basically every answer.
• I reflected on the recent car crash interviews from Swinney and Humza. On Swinney it was actually him that asked the question regarding crowds and he agreed he was not satisfied at all with the answer. On Humza, he stated that the omicron/with or because of Covid data was hard to collect. I said I understood this – but ultimately 2 years on the government have had plenty time to sort out a system to do this if they actually had an interest in keeping the country open and it’s downright irresponsible not to. This was noted.

We then moved on to discuss what happens in the future, and I asked a couple of questions that the P&B masses and some pals put to me:

• I raised very serious concerns with vaccine passports, in terms of their use, their discriminatory nature and the various domino affect repercussions that come with them. I also again raised this as another example of a shan policy cooked up in Holyrood left to private business to deal with. I raised the very real issue of ScotGov simply saying “aye but France etc are doing it” without considering why (France’s vaccine uptake was a lot lower than UK’s, and in that manner it did work). I stated clearly that this is the exact kind of policy that needs to be backed up by concrete data. And I asked when this, along with masks, will be fired into the bin. He was unable to tell me, but agreed that they cannot remain a part of the fabric of our society long term. Whilst I said they needed binned now because of the clear uselessness in the face of omicron, this was noted, and will also be raised at the covid committee should he have time (each MSP seems to only get around 5-6 minutes to question Swinney and Leitch at these things). On masks I’ve ranted about this many many times with him so we didn’t go too in depth but again, along with masks, he is hoping to raise this issue.
• I raised my concerns on data/safe modelling by email and we touched on this briefly – he said he felt it was correct that government looked at worst case and based on this. I blew my top about that via email, and I interrogated him on what qualifications within government do MSPs and ministers have to interrogate data correctly. This wasn’t really answered, but when I took issue with the “worst case” scenario not having any probability attached to it, rendering it meaningless, he seemed to roll back on his view. Regardless, incredibly concerning that we’re being governed like this.
• Moving forward he has said many times he wants this to move to be more like flu – seasonal jabs for the over 50’s and vulnerable. I asked if this was a universal view point or just his, but he wasn’t sure on this.
• John Mason to put it kindly is an outlier within the SNP, the leadership don’t seem to like him because of his somewhat controversial views, so it’s difficult to assess whether or not the leadership agree on the seasonality and binned the need for 28 year olds like me to be getting jabs left right and centre. “Civil Liberties” was raised by me – he put it that looking at the example of the government wanting to enshrine the UN Rights of the Child into law shows the government is doing more on civil liberties. I noted this point – but in terms of the past two years I was talking about things like vaccine passports which in the discussion overall were listened to. He doesn’t like the restrictions and I think he is likely to not really tow the party line with them like others. For example, I also invited Alison Thewliss for a coffee but it became clear that this would not have gone down well as she is far more in line with Nicola Sturgeon. So to answer someone’s question that was put to me – yes it does seem very much like the SNP government and those representing are telt to tow the line, and we went into detail a bit about how a few years ago it was actually worse in terms of party discipline and not being able to speak out (he raised the trans debate but I had absolutely no interest getting into that).

There’s probably some stuff I’ve missed, and again apologies for the long post. I would again stress – Covid and restrictions and the things raised in this thread I have noted have made me a much angrier person over the past 2 years and I strongly recommend voicing your views to your MSP because it almost certainly helps. If anyone’s any other questions just let me know.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Big Fifer

[SlipperyP]

Check this shite https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2245143/hospitals-ordered-to-immediately-admit-child-covid-cases

Heads gone for me.

The boy has been asked to be vaccinated 5-10 yo. Most folk were not sure....BANG 

Quote

The prime minister is concerned about the reported case of a hospital rejecting a child. He asked the Public Health Ministry to arrange for the efficient admission or referral of this group of patients, because children have lower immunity from not having been vaccinated like adults," Ms Traisuree said.

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by SlipperyP

[Honest_Man#1]

21 minutes ago, Big Fifer said:

This post is fucking massive, so apologies.

Got to say fair play to Mason for actually taking a fairly significant bit of time out to speak to you. I’ve tried twice with my local MSP and they haven’t even given me the respect of an email back to acknowledge it.

[Dawson Park Boy]

1 hour ago, Lurkst said:

I disagree but didn't realise you were referring to pundits rather than commentators. There aren't many ex pros who commentate on matches, completely different skillset. 

That Harry Enfield sketch is taking the piss out of the idea that women shouldn't be expected to be involved in football TV coverage. 

 

Let’s be clear.

Commentators AND pundits.

In my experience, most men can relate to the Harry and Paul characters with sympathy. Anyway, changed days.

[vikingTON]

47 minutes ago, Snafu said:

Wasn't one of the first things our FM said when the variant started to impact the UK that she hadn't looked at other countries. I take it that our SG's advisors completely ignored the data and evidence from South Africa. Ignored the fact that we were sitting on over 80% of the population of Scotland double vaccinated and rising at the time, now we have the majority boosted. What is going on, who are we protecting now?

Data and evidence from South Africa is only valid when it supports the interests of the knicker-wetter brigade to impose restrictions to 'keep people safe'.

Once the exact same scientists pointed out the utter futility of racist travel bans (correctly - cue subsequent government climbdown) and that Shanicron cases were both milder and falling like snow off a dyke, they became 'useless Third World foreigners who probably couldn't even use a microscope by themselves'. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by vikingTON

[Clown Job]

1 hour ago, HeartsOfficialMoaner said:

I'm not saying the decisions are not poor. I was asking your opinion on why they want to look like they care. 

Demonising football fans is nothing new with the SG

[Todd_is_God]

11 minutes ago, virginton said:

Data and evidence from South Africa is only valid when it supports the interests of the knicker-wetter brigade to impose restrictions to 'keep people safe'.

Once the exact same scientists pointed out the utter futility of racist travel bans (correctly - cue subsequent government climbdown) and that Shanicron cases were both milder and falling like snow off a dyke, they became 'useless Third World foreigners who probably couldn't even use a microscope by themselves'. 

Leitch gave the game away on this with his "and, crucially, from Edinburgh" when talking about research last week.

Basically they will take bad data from anywhere at face value, but only believe good data if it's from here.

[Clown Job]

28 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Got to say fair play to Mason for actually taking a fairly significant bit of time out to speak to you. I’ve tried twice with my local MSP and they haven’t even given me the respect of an email back to acknowledge it.

To be fair, I know a few of his constituents and despite some of his views he’s always been seen as a good MSP for them

 

[Big Fifer]

27 minutes ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Got to say fair play to Mason for actually taking a fairly significant bit of time out to speak to you. I’ve tried twice with my local MSP and they haven’t even given me the respect of an email back to acknowledge it.

Agreed. I don't agree with him on much and can understand why folk maybe wouldn't want to meet with him (or any member of parliament frankly), but regardless, it was good of him to take the time to speak to me especially given the tone of my previous e-mails.

A further point - I mentioned that the chaotic government down south makes me sick but I am so thankful for the chaos because it seems like the Scottish Government will be dragged kicking and screaming away from the current restrictions. He agreed that whilst there is no financial support available the government can't keep these restrictions in place. It might just be my interpretation of the answer but I would not be surprised to see fans back in stadiums again very soon. 

[ICTChris]

The FM using the example of Denmark in the discussion of Omicron is a really telling moment in all of this.  It was pre-pre-data and was contradicted by the data from South Africa, which had more detail, was more comprehensive and, crucially, was further ahead in the wave than anywhere.

[Detournement]

5 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

The FM using the example of Denmark in the discussion of Omicron is a really telling moment in all of this.  It was pre-pre-data and was contradicted by the data from South Africa, which had more detail, was more comprehensive and, crucially, was further ahead in the wave than anywhere.

It's the same with early treatments. Any data from the global south is disregarded.

 

[Abdul_Latif]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's the same with early treatments. Any data from the global south is disregarded.

 

They even disregard data and scientific advances from the south of our own island. So insular it’s embarrassing.

[scottsdad]

Just been in a bizarre meeting. People talking about case numbers like it was 2020 again. "Case rates in Edinburgh are the highest they've ever been - it is so worrying..."

Well, yes - if this was one of the early variants. And we had no vaccines. Or other treatments. And we were not asking students to test before coming to class. But that is all missed - "case rates" was all the talk. 

One guy said he planned to just teach online because of the case rates. 

[Abdul_Latif]

7 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Just been in a bizarre meeting. People talking about case numbers like it was 2020 again. "Case rates in Edinburgh are the highest they've ever been - it is so worrying..."

This is all on the SG at this point.

Too many for whatever reason refuse to think for themselves or analyse and consider their own acceptable risk. Simply stop peddling the fear and folk will get on with their lives.

[SlipperyP]

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

Got to say fair play to Mason for actually taking a fairly significant bit of time out to speak to you. I’ve tried twice with my local MSP and they haven’t even given me the respect of an email back to acknowledge it.

What a surprise I'm sure the local MSP is not the only person that gives you the big swerve in real life.

Ma wee Dug 

Edited January 10, 2022 by SlipperyP

[Detournement]

The Tory plan of allowing the public sector to be destroyed by letting public sector workers redefine the minimum level of public service is impressively sleekit.

[Abdul_Latif]

1 minute ago, Detournement said:

The Tory plan of allowing the public sector to be destroyed by letting public sector workers redefine the minimum level of public service is impressively sleekit.

Not sure it’s a simple as that though.

The public won’t accept higher taxes. This very conveniently plays right into the private sectors hands without them having to control the narrative.

The members of the public who won’t accept tax rises to fund essential services are fucking it for themselves. 

[Elixir]

11 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

Anyone else expecting the restrictions will be lifted in this week’s update? 

Considering it's probably nailed on that England will be dropping their 'Plan B' on the 26th, I don't think they'll have any option. The only question is how they weasel their way around justifying the climbdown.

 

10 hours ago, MP_MFC said:

Nope. Not entirely. We’ve got a strategic framework about living with covid in the works so there’ll be some sort of levels pish with that I’m sure.

Which will be utterly irrelevant and roundly ignored. I don't think these people realise just how much the bulk of people are over it now. Come summer especially it is going to look ludicrous if they keep trying to flog this dead horse.

 

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

He is going to be deported. Biofascism won't take a step back.

The consensus today that unless you have the correct number of approved vaccines to enter a country you should be barred pretty much kills international travel as it formerly existed. 

Fucking hell.

 

2 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

The NHS is struggling without  lockdown = spl gates are dwindling without rangers

It's definitely the same energy!

 

22 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

Just been in a bizarre meeting. People talking about case numbers like it was 2020 again. "Case rates in Edinburgh are the highest they've ever been - it is so worrying..."

Well, yes - if this was one of the early variants. And we had no vaccines. Or other treatments. And we were not asking students to test before coming to class. But that is all missed - "case rates" was all the talk.

One guy said he planned to just teach online because of the case rates.

So many chancers rip the utter pish out of this.